Should EVs have a specific look

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Dandock
Posts: 4096
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:29 pm

Post by Dandock »

Peteski wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:31 am
Dandock wrote: Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:29 pm As the above issue was raised in another thread, should EVs designs be different and if so, in what way?
They should simply make use of their drivetrain layout i.e. short overhangs, large cabin space etc. They should also make use of their inherent aerodynamic advantage by not having huge front grilles etc. Tesla did both these things to good effect with class leading aero drag and class leading interior space. Jaguar compromised a bit with the iPace - it has the short overhangs, but not the interior space or ultra-low drag of a Tesla. EVs need to be built from the ground up to realise the full benefits of the technology. Most manufacturers (except oddly BMW, who appear to have back-peddled) seem to be going down that path with dedicated EV platforms.

On the inside, there's no need for conventional analogue instrument displays. You just need to know how fast you are going and how long you can go for. Having a cluster of pointless round dial gauges is not the way forward in an EV, but again that will take a while to sink in with some manufacturers. Nobody is going to buy a round iPad are they? Same goes for an over-sized, raised centre console with a massive gearstick poking out. All totally wasted space in an EV.
The singular advantage Tesla have in terms of design is that they've no history and so have been able to begin with a totally clean piece of paper unfettered by established cues and accountants. At present spending constraints appear to be a low priority. All credit to the premise but what ultimately remains to be seen is if they can ever make any money and whether EM is there to see it through. :|
VG Petrol S http://www.porsche-code.com/PHIVCQU7           And a GT3 RS... by Lego! Not crash-tested! 😀

Deleted User 1874

Post by Deleted User 1874 »

Dandock wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:59 am
Peteski wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:31 am
Dandock wrote: Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:29 pm As the above issue was raised in another thread, should EVs designs be different and if so, in what way?
They should simply make use of their drivetrain layout i.e. short overhangs, large cabin space etc. They should also make use of their inherent aerodynamic advantage by not having huge front grilles etc. Tesla did both these things to good effect with class leading aero drag and class leading interior space. Jaguar compromised a bit with the iPace - it has the short overhangs, but not the interior space or ultra-low drag of a Tesla. EVs need to be built from the ground up to realise the full benefits of the technology. Most manufacturers (except oddly BMW, who appear to have back-peddled) seem to be going down that path with dedicated EV platforms.

On the inside, there's no need for conventional analogue instrument displays. You just need to know how fast you are going and how long you can go for. Having a cluster of pointless round dial gauges is not the way forward in an EV, but again that will take a while to sink in with some manufacturers. Nobody is going to buy a round iPad are they? Same goes for an over-sized, raised centre console with a massive gearstick poking out. All totally wasted space in an EV.
The singular advantage Tesla have in terms of design is that they've no history and so have been able to begin with a totally clean piece of paper unfettered by established cues and accountants. At present spending constraints appear to be a low priority. All credit to the premise but what ultimately remains to be seen is if they can ever make any money and whether EM is there to see it through. :|
True. But I think they can make money once the massive capex is paid off. Starting a large scale vehicle manufacturing business literally from scratch is never going to be anything other than a huge spending exercise over the first decade. Unlike previous failed attempts at a start-up car business, Tesla have highly desirable and innovative products that both sell themselves and encourage future investment. Reminds me of Apple in the early 2000s.
Dandock
Posts: 4096
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:29 pm

Post by Dandock »

Peteski wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:48 pm
Dandock wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:59 am
Peteski wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:31 am

They should simply make use of their drivetrain layout i.e. short overhangs, large cabin space etc. They should also make use of their inherent aerodynamic advantage by not having huge front grilles etc. Tesla did both these things to good effect with class leading aero drag and class leading interior space. Jaguar compromised a bit with the iPace - it has the short overhangs, but not the interior space or ultra-low drag of a Tesla. EVs need to be built from the ground up to realise the full benefits of the technology. Most manufacturers (except oddly BMW, who appear to have back-peddled) seem to be going down that path with dedicated EV platforms.

On the inside, there's no need for conventional analogue instrument displays. You just need to know how fast you are going and how long you can go for. Having a cluster of pointless round dial gauges is not the way forward in an EV, but again that will take a while to sink in with some manufacturers. Nobody is going to buy a round iPad are they? Same goes for an over-sized, raised centre console with a massive gearstick poking out. All totally wasted space in an EV.
The singular advantage Tesla have in terms of design is that they've no history and so have been able to begin with a totally clean piece of paper unfettered by established cues and accountants. At present spending constraints appear to be a low priority. All credit to the premise but what ultimately remains to be seen is if they can ever make any money and whether EM is there to see it through. :|
True. But I think they can make money once the massive capex is paid off. Starting a large scale vehicle manufacturing business literally from scratch is never going to be anything other than a huge spending exercise over the first decade. Unlike previous failed attempts at a start-up car business, Tesla have highly desirable and innovative products that both sell themselves and encourage future investment. Reminds me of Apple in the early 2000s.
Except Apple were an established brand with an immense reputation particularly in the design world. They also had a virtual monopoly in US schools. Their battle was being ex-Jobs and Microsoft.
VG Petrol S http://www.porsche-code.com/PHIVCQU7           And a GT3 RS... by Lego! Not crash-tested! 😀
Dandock
Posts: 4096
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:29 pm

Post by Dandock »

Col Lamb wrote: Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:57 pm 7170EC0A-ACE5-4B2C-A3D9-750998F21406.jpeg

If Tesla can design a stunning EV then so can others.
This is also simply an imagining and not real vehicle undergoing development.
VG Petrol S http://www.porsche-code.com/PHIVCQU7           And a GT3 RS... by Lego! Not crash-tested! 😀
Dandock
Posts: 4096
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:29 pm

Post by Dandock »

...however... a few more pics minus some more tape. I think we can now begin to see the true outline a little more clearly. Mind you being black doesn’t help in seeing the definition.

https://www.carscoops.com/2018/09/elect ... ts-wheels/
VG Petrol S http://www.porsche-code.com/PHIVCQU7           And a GT3 RS... by Lego! Not crash-tested! 😀
Deleted User 1874

Post by Deleted User 1874 »

Dandock wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:57 pm
Col Lamb wrote: Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:57 pm 7170EC0A-ACE5-4B2C-A3D9-750998F21406.jpeg

If Tesla can design a stunning EV then so can others.
This is also simply an imagining and not real vehicle undergoing development.
Not sure what you mean? They are very much real vehicles under development. The battery tech might well change to achieve their production goals, but the rest of the car looks pretty well finished.
Dandock
Posts: 4096
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:29 pm

Post by Dandock »

Peteski wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:26 pm
Dandock wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:57 pm
Col Lamb wrote: Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:57 pm 7170EC0A-ACE5-4B2C-A3D9-750998F21406.jpeg

If Tesla can design a stunning EV then so can others.
This is also simply an imagining and not real vehicle undergoing development.
Not sure what you mean? They are very much real vehicles under development. The battery tech might well change to achieve their production goals, but the rest of the car looks pretty well finished.
I was thinking that the image is not the car as will be sold but an enhanced publicity shot.
VG Petrol S http://www.porsche-code.com/PHIVCQU7           And a GT3 RS... by Lego! Not crash-tested! 😀
Dandock
Posts: 4096
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:29 pm

Post by Dandock »

But in any case we’re not comparing apples with apples. The Tesla will compete with Ferrari, Lamborghini et al and not an £80K everyday machine. The ethos and economics are totally different.
VG Petrol S http://www.porsche-code.com/PHIVCQU7           And a GT3 RS... by Lego! Not crash-tested! 😀
Deleted User 1874

Post by Deleted User 1874 »

Dandock wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:55 pm
Peteski wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:48 pm
Dandock wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:59 am

The singular advantage Tesla have in terms of design is that they've no history and so have been able to begin with a totally clean piece of paper unfettered by established cues and accountants. At present spending constraints appear to be a low priority. All credit to the premise but what ultimately remains to be seen is if they can ever make any money and whether EM is there to see it through. :|
True. But I think they can make money once the massive capex is paid off. Starting a large scale vehicle manufacturing business literally from scratch is never going to be anything other than a huge spending exercise over the first decade. Unlike previous failed attempts at a start-up car business, Tesla have highly desirable and innovative products that both sell themselves and encourage future investment. Reminds me of Apple in the early 2000s.
Except Apple were an established brand with an immense reputation particularly in the design world. They also had a virtual monopoly in US schools. Their battle was being ex-Jobs and Microsoft.
Apple were a failing brand at that time too. I would argue that Tesla is now very much an established brand, especially among the younger generations. Like Apple in the 2000s, Tesla have a very limited product portfolio, but it fits their market perfectly and there is little competition.

Even when the mainstream industry starts putting out competing EVs in dribs and drabs, the demand so far outstrips supply that it doesn't seriously affect actual sales of any brand EV. There are already people on the iPace forum who have cancelled and ordered a Tesla just because they got fed up of the delays. Competition in this case has just made more people think about possibly buying an EV.
Deleted User 1874

Post by Deleted User 1874 »

Dandock wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:35 pm But in any case we’re not comparing apples with apples. The Tesla will compete with Ferrari, Lamborghini et al and not an £80K everyday machine. The ethos and economics are totally different.
Good luck with an £80K Taycan. I can't see this thing being anything less than £120K in reality. Availability will no doubt be dire too. VIPs only I would suggest for the foreseeable future.
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