Porsche slow to BEV Macan

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GTB
Posts: 540
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:49 pm
Location: Scotland

Post by GTB »

I think the reason that vast majority or if not all EV's look ugly is for one simple reason!

So that ICE drivers can spot them and can then easily accelerate past them as the EV runs out of charge...............

GTB
Current Macan GTS Collected July 2022 https://www.porsche.com/microsite/porsc ... =/PNM4GBM0

Deleted User 1874

Post by Deleted User 1874 »

OmniCognateSnr wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:20 pm
Peteski wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:07 pm
bennachie wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:54 pm Sell in bucket loads? Not at 80k we are having our trousers down over ev; even more than Porsche have traditionally done. Cheaper components, cheaper service..................EV is the golden goose for manufacturers at least for the forseeable future. Oh , and don't forget the government will catch up with regar d to its pricing structure....................probably later rather than sooner but it will, has, to happen..............
Most manufacturers are still struggling to turn profits on their EVs equivalent to their ICE sales. It's getting closer with battery costs coming down, but hardly a golden goose for them at this point.
tesla were just valued at $900 billion. Nearly 20% of cars sold in the EU last quarter were electric apparently. BMW have said they will stop making ICE engines completely at their main plant in 2024. I honestly think its coming quite fast now.

https://apple.news/ANMwhvZoQQBqFW1wIVVXnTA

https://apple.news/AKQmeI2hiTUSlWxAr9Y64AQ

I’ve just bought a V6 ICE Macan, but I genuinely think ICE has had its day in the sun, and quite rightly. Not exactly modern tech
Tesla are the exception as they have long had their battery costs nailed down. They pay well below the industry average per kWh. It's one of the reasons they can turn a decent unit profit on their EVs.
Deleted User 1874

Post by Deleted User 1874 »

GTB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:48 pm I think the reason that vast majority or if not all EV's look ugly is for one simple reason!

So that ICE drivers can spot them and can then easily accelerate past them as the EV runs out of charge...............

GTB
In your dreams maybe.
GTB
Posts: 540
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:49 pm
Location: Scotland

Post by GTB »

Peteski wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:33 pm
GTB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:48 pm I think the reason that vast majority or if not all EV's look ugly is for one simple reason!

So that ICE drivers can spot them and can then easily accelerate past them as the EV runs out of charge...............

GTB
In your dreams maybe.
Peteski,
Perhaps you could explain your comment further?

At this time I have two Diesel Cars both Euro 6 compliant.
The smaller one bought brand new in March 2021 and on a full tank (50l) of Diesel and its 1.6L engine has a range of over 600Mls and trip back from Essex to Scotland last night my recorded consumption was 63MPG plus I stopped for one toilet stop and didnt refuel at all. When I arrived at home there is still 198 Mls range left on the car.

The larger one with a 1.9L engine and a 60L tank again range of nearly 750 Mls when full and again consumption in the 50 - 60MPG

Can you indicate on a straight distance journey on UK Motorways what current EV would outlast distance wise my ICE with no recharging stops?
I have kept thing simple for you, without adding in winter tempertures that will soon be with us of 0Deg C ambient temp plus that windchill factor which will decrease by quite a margin the manufacturers range distance on one charge for your vehichle.

If you are talking about acceleration only? then yes some EV can out perform an ICE, but even then and Im thinking back now some fifty years that old cartoon movie of the tortoise and the hare.

As I have said on a number of posts on EV, Im not against them, they do have a place to play in the global transport arena now and in the future, but they are certainly not a silver bullet and the only solution to every single motorist, their driving needs and also the type of dwelling they live in and the sooner people wake up to that, especially our politicians the better.

GTB
Current Macan GTS Collected July 2022 https://www.porsche.com/microsite/porsc ... =/PNM4GBM0
bennachie
Posts: 1505
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:10 pm

Post by bennachie »

Agreed that BEV designs so far are poor. There is always something/angle wrong. I-pace a case in point
'The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time'
bennachie
Posts: 1505
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:10 pm

Post by bennachie »

Who would have thought a clean sheet would be so difficult......
'The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time'
Deleted User 4436

Post by Deleted User 4436 »

bennachie wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:26 pm Agreed that BEV designs so far are poor. There is always something/angle wrong. I-pace a case in point
From a looks perspective I think the Audi Etron GT or Taycan are probably the best (basically the same car) then Tesla then Polestar ( at the moment ). The Q4 Etron looks pretty good too, just nasty and cheap feeling to drive.

I think the problem is that EV designers keep trying to show EV’s are the “future” so should stand out from everything else. Usually that means making revolting looking cars.

Mind you, I remember thinking how utterly bizarre the Sierra looked when it first came out when all other cars were just square boxes.
Deleted User 1874

Post by Deleted User 1874 »

GTB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:12 pm
Peteski wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:33 pm
GTB wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:48 pm I think the reason that vast majority or if not all EV's look ugly is for one simple reason!

So that ICE drivers can spot them and can then easily accelerate past them as the EV runs out of charge...............

GTB
In your dreams maybe.
Peteski,
Perhaps you could explain your comment further?

At this time I have two Diesel Cars both Euro 6 compliant.
The smaller one bought brand new in March 2021 and on a full tank (50l) of Diesel and its 1.6L engine has a range of over 600Mls and trip back from Essex to Scotland last night my recorded consumption was 63MPG plus I stopped for one toilet stop and didnt refuel at all. When I arrived at home there is still 198 Mls range left on the car.

The larger one with a 1.9L engine and a 60L tank again range of nearly 750 Mls when full and again consumption in the 50 - 60MPG

Can you indicate on a straight distance journey on UK Motorways what current EV would outlast distance wise my ICE with no recharging stops?
I have kept thing simple for you, without adding in winter tempertures that will soon be with us of 0Deg C ambient temp plus that windchill factor which will decrease by quite a margin the manufacturers range distance on one charge for your vehichle.

If you are talking about acceleration only? then yes some EV can out perform an ICE, but even then and Im thinking back now some fifty years that old cartoon movie of the tortoise and the hare.

As I have said on a number of posts on EV, Im not against them, they do have a place to play in the global transport arena now and in the future, but they are certainly not a silver bullet and the only solution to every single motorist, their driving needs and also the type of dwelling they live in and the sooner people wake up to that, especially our politicians the better.

GTB
My EV can comfortably do 300 miles between charge points and then I feel like stopping for a coffee anyway before then. Cost of fuel = zero for me on a long trip. Re-charge time approx 15-30 mins depending on how much extra range I need. Usually ready to go after a coffee break and toilet stop. Not saying you can't get there quicker in a diesel, but only at the expense of your health and well-being. I've owned plenty of diesels in the past, so no need to explain how they work. As for actual acceleration - it's a different league.

In fairness our older and much larger Model X with the smallest battery has a range of only 200 miles and maybe as low as 150 miles in winter without a heat pump. But it still does long haul UK journeys pretty well with just one extra break and the current version has a range of well over 300 miles and over 1000 hp. It wafts along so effortlessly that long journeys are a pleasure and Supercharger breaks are painless. But public charging mmmm....... not convinced at this point.
Last edited by Deleted User 1874 on Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deleted User 1874

Post by Deleted User 1874 »

OmniCognateSnr wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:38 pm Mind you, I remember thinking how utterly bizarre the Sierra looked when it first came out when all other cars were just square boxes.
I think this is one of the main issues. Cars like Tesla are designed to give maximum interior space and optimum external aerodynamics, so they look "different" to traditional cars - typically much lower bonnet line and deeper glass area. What's the drag coefficient of a Macan? Something like 0.36/0.37. That's certainly not going to cut it in the future when you need to be down to around 0.25 or less to get the efficiency you need for a competitive EV. Jaguar missed the mark a bit with their iPace in that respect attempting to make it a bit more conventional looking. Same goes for the eTron SUV. The GT and Taycan are more on target.
Last edited by Deleted User 1874 on Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deleted User 4436

Post by Deleted User 4436 »

Peteski wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:04 pm
OmniCognateSnr wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:38 pm Mind you, I remember thinking how utterly bizarre the Sierra looked when it first came out when all other cars were just square boxes.
I think this is one of the main issues. Cars like Tesla are designed to give maximum interior space and optimum external aerodynamics, so they look "different" to traditional cars. What's the drag coefficient of a Macan? Something like 0.36/0.37. That's certainly not going to cut it in the future when you need to be down to around 0.25 or less to get the efficiency you need for a competitive EV.
generally speaking I think the Tesla’s, all of them, look pretty good. Not massively keen on the squashed frog look of the Model 3 from the front but I think it looks at least as good as any other saloon from the side and the back. I also think the build quality was pretty good and the handling was surprisingly good. The acceleration is insane from any speed. It makes pretty much any ICE Porsche, including all the more exotic stuff, feel like a tractor. However, for me I prefer the Macan as an over all package. The Model 3 Performance was always plan B for me though if the Macan was going to take to long to show up. Its still my main choice for the next car. I’m 99.9% sure the Macan will be my last ICE car ( as a daily driver )
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