Porsche slow to BEV Macan

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Deleted User 4436

Post by Deleted User 4436 »

this is funny, and kind of shows what i mean about the opinion of Tesla owners in the US.

https://apple.news/A3l_8awqfSa-dzBF4oIY9Ew

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SAC1
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Post by SAC1 »

OmniCognateSnr wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:28 pm
SAC1 wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:05 pm
OmniCognateSnr wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:26 pm

Electric isn't terribly popular in the US. It is seen as a political decision to go electric and shows your political affiliation. There have been lots of reports in the US of charges (or electric cars) being blocked by pickup trucks because they feel removing their V8's is tantamount to removing their guns. Don't forget that Coal Rolling is still a thing in the US. Plus there are a lot more people over there and the distances are a lot bigger so, outside of cities, electric cars are less practical. They, like the rest of the world, will have no choice ultimately. As younger drivers come through, they will be less adverse to electric cars, in the same way new drivers have no issues with wearing seatbelts, and not using their phones in cars. The fossils that do will eventually die out, as will ICE cars. As you'll have seen in previous posts I am not saying I think this is the correct approach, I do, however, think its inevitable
1. you have no knowledge of my "political affiliation"
2. "young drivers.....not using their phones in cars" - I suggest you go to Spec Savers
3. I recall a time when the 8-track cartridge player was "inevetable" followed by the casette, then the CD etc by the tech / music pundits - where are all those now - in the trash
1. The general perception of electric car drivers in the US is that they vote Democrat. I spend a lot of time in the US for work and because I am married to an American. Tesla’s are very much associated with Californian ( Democratic) ideals. In a similar way that if someone is driving a pickup truck with a gun rack and a confederate flag on the roof they probably vote Republican.

2. Most people I have seen using their phones in cars are older people, not youngsters. I drive approx 35,000 miles a year ( or did, pre pandemic) and it’s usually middle aged men who can’t put their phones down.

3. You can’t really be comparing 8 track to a c-change in car engines can you? Think you missed to point a bit on that one.

4. Relax. This is supposed to be a friendly forum where people can express their views. If you want to get worked up there are plenty of social media alternatives where you can vent.
I for one have had enough of your inane verbal diarreha. You have been posting for just 2 months and don't even own a Macan (yet). Yet you've already made nearly 800 posts!

This is indeed a friendly, informative and knowledgeable owners' forum that I have had the pleasure of being involved with for 5 years. The vast majority make succinct posts.

For the first time EVER I am going to block a member - you. I had more than enough of your drivel.
Steve

2020 GTS in Sapphire Blue
(sold) 2017 SD in Rhodium Silver
Deleted User 4436

Post by Deleted User 4436 »

SAC1 wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:21 pm
OmniCognateSnr wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:28 pm
SAC1 wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:05 pm

1. you have no knowledge of my "political affiliation"
2. "young drivers.....not using their phones in cars" - I suggest you go to Spec Savers
3. I recall a time when the 8-track cartridge player was "inevetable" followed by the casette, then the CD etc by the tech / music pundits - where are all those now - in the trash
1. The general perception of electric car drivers in the US is that they vote Democrat. I spend a lot of time in the US for work and because I am married to an American. Tesla’s are very much associated with Californian ( Democratic) ideals. In a similar way that if someone is driving a pickup truck with a gun rack and a confederate flag on the roof they probably vote Republican.

2. Most people I have seen using their phones in cars are older people, not youngsters. I drive approx 35,000 miles a year ( or did, pre pandemic) and it’s usually middle aged men who can’t put their phones down.

3. You can’t really be comparing 8 track to a c-change in car engines can you? Think you missed to point a bit on that one.

4. Relax. This is supposed to be a friendly forum where people can express their views. If you want to get worked up there are plenty of social media alternatives where you can vent.
I for one have had enough of your inane verbal diarreha. You have been posting for just 2 months and don't even own a Macan (yet). Yet you've already made nearly 800 posts!

This is indeed a friendly, informative and knowledgeable owners' forum that I have had the pleasure of being involved with for 5 years. The vast majority make succinct posts.

For the first time EVER I am going to block a member - you. I had more than enough of your drivel.
good grief.
GTB
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Post by GTB »

Evening All,

Just thought I would add a little bit more info regarding my previous Ref and small amount of detail on the Haru Oni project in Chile regarding production of efuels and the investment by a number of large engineering companies, oil companies, car manufacturers and the indication ICE vehicles will not die.

So looking further into the project and comments by other organisations and interestingly the EU, here is some more detail on this project and its potential.

"For long distances and heavy duty, where electrification is neither an economically or technically viable option due to the current battery size and its short range, the hydrogen-powered fuel cell can be considered as a possible alternative. But economic factors will limit the roll-out of new and expensive infrastructure. That is why the combustion engine will continue to play a role – whether we like it or not.

6141f1b58089e.jpg

But here is the good news: the internal combustion engine (ICE) can also be operated in a climate-neutral way. That is because it's not the combustion technology itself that matters, but the energy carriers that it combusts. Unlike fossil fuels, eFuels do not release additional CO2, so they are almost climate-neutral in the overall balance. In the transport sector, the use of eFuels as a climate-neutral alternative to fossil fuels could therefore lead to a significant reduction in CO2 emissions.

eFuels are suitable for all means of transport powered by an ICE, such as cars, trucks, aircraft, ships, and can provide a climate-neutral option in cases where the market ramp-up of electromobility faces challenges (e.g. infrastructural issues, electricity price increase, lack of customer acceptance) or is unfeasible for the foreseeable future as in hard-to-abate sectors such as aviation and maritime. They can be blended into conventional liquid and gaseous fuels such as petrol and diesel and, as larger quantities of eFuels are gradually added, and production costs fall over time thanks to economies of scale, eFuels can be affordable for consumers in every phase.

6141f1b583693.jpg

Deploying eFuels in road transport would also allow the existing current fleet of more than 1,4 billion vehicles worldwide to be better integrated into climate protection efforts. For example, an EU-wide blending of just 5% eFuels to conventional fuel in the year 2030, would result in a saving of 60 million tons of CO2 – equivalent to taking 40 million cars off the road for an entire year.

In addition to the roll-out of e-mobility, eFuels should therefore be granted a complementary role in defossilising road transport. Instead of pitting climate protection technologies against each other, the focus of climate policies must be on phasing out the use of fossil fuels in all sectors and creating effective incentives for the production and deployment of all relevant carbon-neutral technologies, including eFuels. A recent survey by the opinion research institute Forsa in Germany proves the point: 60% of the respondents would choose a car with combustion engine, powered by eFuels, to drive in a climate-friendly way.

And the versatility of eFuels extends their reach beyond transport: They can also be used as feedstock for the industrial chemical sector and provide a climate-neutral alternative to conventional heating oil. Given that around 20 million heating systems in the EU run on conventional liquid fuels, eFuels can contribute to significant CO2 reductions in the building sector and in domestic heating, sparing lower-income households high conversion and renovation costs by keeping the oil-fired boilers running – but in a climate-friendly manner.

This wide range of applications for eFuels explains why they make sense both for climate protection and economic reasons. Alongside the expansion of e-mobility, eFuels can make a significant contribution to CO2 reduction in the transport sector. At the same time, the investment and job-creation potential of eFuels is huge – in research and development, in mechanical and plant engineering and, last but not least, in securing the future of the automotive industry. In Germany alone, the production and export of power-to-X technologies and plants could generate €36.4 billion in additional value added per year and create almost half a million new jobs.

Yet, to leverage the potential of eFuels, regulatory incentives must be created to enable their market ramp-up as quickly as possible. The European Green Deal offers a unique opportunity to set the necessary legislative framework and create a business case for eFuel production. Three legislative plans presented by the European Commission in July will be key to creating immediate market demand for eFuels and triggering the investment needed for their market introduction:

The revision of the Renewable Energy Directive

In its proposal to revise the Renewable Energy Directive, the European Commission seeks to increase the share of renewable energy in transport and to introduce a specific sub-target for so-called renewable fuels of non-biological origin (RFNBOs) to promote the use of hydrogen and hydrogen-based products such as eFuels in the transport sector. The eFuel Alliance welcomes this, though we fear that the level of ambition is insufficient to provide the incentives for investment needed to significantly advance the defossilisation of transport. In the context of a coherent EU climate strategy, we will therefore advocate in the coming weeks and months for more ambitious targets of 5% eFuels in 2030, a cross-sectoral and broad usage of sustainable renewable fuels and longer planning horizons beyond 2030 to provide more legal certainty, as this is vital for large-scale projects.

CO2 emission standards for cars and vans

While the Renewable Energy Directive regulates the supply side for renewables, market-based instruments such as counting eFuels towards EU CO2 fleet targets should complement and strengthen emission-reduction efforts on the demand side. The eFuel Alliance therefore encourages the EU Co-legislators, the European Council and European Parliament, to introduce a crediting system as part of the revision of the CO2 emission standards regulation. This instrument would unlock additional volumes of renewable fuels, enable extra GHG reductions in transport, and thus ensure effective climate action. It is the only option to set a vehicle with an internal combustion engine climate neutral. More options to meet the requirements under the CO2 emission standards will also have a positive impact on costs for consumers in all EU member states, enabling a fair transition to carbon-neutral mobility.

Reforming European Energy Taxation

As part of a comprehensive EU climate policy, we also believe that an overhaul of current energy taxation is long overdue. If energy tax is levied on an environmentally relevant tax base, it will promote the use of sustainable, clean fuels instead of conventional fossil fuels and thus support the market ramp-up of eFuels. Under the current Energy Taxation Directive, fossil and eFuels are treated equally – a clear contradiction of climate ambitions. The EU Commission's latest proposal to reform the EU Energy Tax Directive points in the right direction. However, we would have liked to see a harmonised approach in which renewable fuels in road transport would also benefit from better treatment than fossil fuels in all Member States.

This is a critical moment in the battle to curb climate change, and a vital opportunity to move forward collectively must not be missed. Together business leaders, policy makers and environmentalists must take a pragmatic approach to achieving the goal that everyone now wants – from Berlin to Bejing. And that means giving eFuels the chance to play their part in averting a climate change catastrophe. Now is the time to make sure that Haru Oni in the remote reaches of Chilean Patagonia is the first, rather than the last, project of its kind.

Regards GTB
Current Macan GTS Collected July 2022 https://www.porsche.com/microsite/porsc ... =/PNM4GBM0
Deleted User 4436

Post by Deleted User 4436 »

^^^ excellent stuff, thanks. I think eFuels are an excellent idea but my concern is more round the politics than the technology. I suspect there is too much momentum on getting rid of ICE engines, even if they end up actually being more ecologically sustainable than electric.

one thing i don’t know, but is worth considering is the price of manufacture. I would assume an electric motor is a lot cheaper to make than an ICE engine. So if manufacturer’s can sell electric at the same or more than ICE then they will always go down that route because they’ll make more money. Just a thought.
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Neil1911
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Post by Neil1911 »

^^^ ...but they throttle the parts and maintenance income stream.
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Deleted User 4436

Post by Deleted User 4436 »

Looking at the length of the queue outside my local petrol station at 07:00 this morning ( Sat ) and the closed pumps I’m beginning to see the appeal of electric.

Thanks for telling everyone not to panic buy Boris, great job. Run that past you internal psychologist before opening your gob next time perhaps
Rarecolour
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Post by Rarecolour »

Pretty sure he had to come out and say something cause the dumbass tabloids did their usual scare mongering.
Can't really blame Boris, the idiots going to fill up when they don't need to need their heads checking. Was told yesterday that some locals stations by us had folk filling up Jerry cans to stock pile the fuel, the world has gone nuts.
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pmg
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Post by pmg »

Where this Government, not just Boris, can be blamed is the lack of risk based thinking and taking adequate action in advance to mitigate the problems before they hit; added to by sticking to doctrinaire policy.

BP saw their total inaction and went public due to frustration.
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