OmniCognateSnr wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:50 am
What we need is a sensible science-based discussion on the best way forward. This may be hydrogen fuel cell, it may be better battery tech that doesn’t include digging holes everywhere or it may be bio fuels that enable us to carry on using our ICE cars but without people dying from the fumes around London’s ring roads.
Very true but unfortunately the opportunity for that has long since past. We are following the path dictated by "He who shouts loudest......."
Apparently, yesterday there was a fire in one of the Interconnecters between UK and France. Allegedly, it will be totally off-line until Wednesday of next week and capable of only 50% capacity until March next year. Oh for the good old days when the CEGB (pardon my language!) was required to have a generating capacity 25% greater than highest anticipated demand.
OmniCognateSnr wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:50 am
What we need is a sensible science-based discussion on the best way forward. This may be hydrogen fuel cell, it may be better battery tech that doesn’t include digging holes everywhere or it may be bio fuels that enable us to carry on using our ICE cars but without people dying from the fumes around London’s ring roads.
Very true but unfortunately the opportunity for that has long since past. We are following the path dictated by "He who shouts loudest......."
Apparently, yesterday there was a fire in one of the Interconnecters between UK and France. Allegedly, it will be totally off-line until Wednesday of next week and capable of only 50% capacity until March next year. Oh for the good old days when the CEGB (pardon my language!) was required to have a generating capacity 25% greater than highest anticipated demand.
We often had a margin of around 40% but more importantly, we had a legal ‘obligation to supply’ at all times. That was swept away by privatisation and from then on we’d get calls or visits from civil servants absolutely sh*tting themselves whenever the margin started to get tight, usually in the depths of a bad winter.
I already as a neewbie to this form indicated there is no Silver Bullet for fuels/transport, and although not a great fan of EV, they do have a place to play for some motorists and how they use their vehicles. I have said there needs to be a mix such as CNG, Ethanol Hydrogen etc. And waht dropped into my inbox today I think backs my thoughts up. In the UK and Europe we or shall I say central Governments just cant see by EV. But the grid cant deal with it, and charging infrastructure will never cover every motorist in the UK transitioning to EV.
So below is an article in one of my industry journals to make people think, And Im very pleased to read that ICE will not die!! if developments of 100% synthetic fuels can further develop and hit price margins associated with their hydro carbon petrol and diesel, why would anybody buy an EV, Manufacturers just change the injectors/fuel system so the ICE can deal with the new synthetic fuel, just as a gas boiler can run on natural gas or propane or fuel oil with the right bits and pieces.
"EVs and eFuels – Both are needed for a sustainable mobility transition
Instead of pitting climate protection technologies against each other, the focus of climate policies must be on phasing out fossil fuels and using incentives to boost the deployment of all carbon-neutral technologies, including eFuels. Algara Castle writes about the huge potential of synthetic fuels in the future energy mix.
In the flat, barren, land north of Punta Arenas in Chilean Patagonia, ground was broken in September for the world’s first integrated, commercial plant to produce synthetic, carbon-neutral fuels on an industrial scale. The project plant called Haru Oni will harness the region’s excellent wind conditions to produce the electricity needed to make a climate friendly alternative to fossil fuels from green hydrogen – so called eFuels, which are emerging as a vital factor in the battle to reduce CO2 emissions in the transport sector. And on board for this pioneering project are amongst others SiemensEnergy, AME SpA and ExxonMobil, one of the largest U.S. oil companies – which are all members of the eFuel Alliance.
Like other leading players the Texan oil major is preparing for the inevitable and investing heavily in renewable energy projects, because one thing is becoming more and more clear: The era of fossil fuels is being consigned to history. The European Union, the new U.S administration, and China have all committed to tackling climate change. Across the world, the details of the policy programmes may be different, but the vision is the same. Institutional investors can see the way the wind is blowing, are shifting out of fossil fuels and trying their hand at green and sustainable finance. If oil companies want to stay relevant, they have no choice but to adapt their businesses and contribute to this transition.
Transport, which still heavily depends on fossil fuels, has a key role to play here, as it accounts for one fifth of global carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions, and thus holds great reduction potential. Various technologies are available to curb road emissions, and big oil companies are exploring them: As electrification will undoubtedly be an important building block, companies like BP are making multi-million-dollar investments in the development of fast-charging batteries and charging infrastructure for e-vehicles. However, there are limits to the requirements for mobility that can be satisfied by battery-electric vehicles alone. For long distances and heavy duty, where electrification is neither an economically or technically viable option due to the current battery size and its short range, the hydrogen-powered fuel cell can be considered as a possible alternative. But economic factors will limit the roll-out of new and expensive infrastructure. That is why the combustion engine will continue to play a role – whether we like it or not!!!!!!!!!! "
I then went into the detail of the actual project and found this quote from Siemens who have partnered on this project in Chile.
"It's somehow ironic that a part of the world where there are very few roads is playing a huge role in keeping modern and classic sports cars on the road.
70% of all Porsches ever made are still in use, and Porsche sees synthetic fuel as a solution for keeping vintage cars going for decades to come. This is one of the reasons the automaker is investing in the Haru Oni project.
As the fuel’s primary user, Porsche is planning in the first phase to use the e-fuels from Chile in beacon projects. These include using e-fuels in Porsche’s motorsport fleet, at Porsche Experience Centers and, later, in series production sports cars. The sports car maker will start with an initial investment of roughly 20 million euros".
So for those on the Forum, maybe Porsche have other plans, yes they have EV as we know with Macan EV soon for those that wish to purchase it, but maybe for people like myself with a new GTS on order in ten years time I just start buying eFuel?
Happy days.
So hope that may help some people not to despair that ICE will die and become extinct.
Another great post Gareth, thanks! It's clear that BEV isn't the answer to every transport situation for numerous reasons. Roll on the arrival of zero emission synthetic fuel!
GTB wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:23 pm
So for those on the Forum, maybe Porsche have other plans, yes they have EV as we know with Macan EV soon for those that wish to purchase it, but maybe for people like myself with a new GTS on order in ten years time I just start buying eFuel?
GTB
I don't quite believe that "efuel" will be so widely available in the more rural locations I like to drive that vehicle running on it will be a viable mode of transport
GTB wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:23 pm
So for those on the Forum, maybe Porsche have other plans, yes they have EV as we know with Macan EV soon for those that wish to purchase it, but maybe for people like myself with a new GTS on order in ten years time I just start buying eFuel?
GTB
I don't quite believe that "efuel" will be so widely available in the more rural locations I like to drive that vehicle running on it will be a viable mode of transport
Hi PMG,
I suspect and I know efuels or 100% synthetic fuels for the masses may be some time away, but other ICE equipment run on them and certain motorsports developers and technologists are all investing in it, just look at the oils and lubricants we use today are they all hydrocarbon based or synthetic? if they can do this with engine oil they can do for ICE fuels.
Transition timing is the thing as life cycle of a car is typically 12 years on average so we need to accept it takes time for people that purchase new vehichles with new fuels take a time to work down to those that purchase second hand.
I have worked with fuel filling station electrical installations for some 40 years so as we may have felt and saw, leaded petrol being phased out and unleaded come in, we now have intro of Ethanol and bio diesel albeit small percentages that earlier this month increased, and all 9000 filling stations in the UK manage to adapt by balancing fuel type in their multi compartment tanks and how many nozzles at the dispensers are availible for the customers choice, so with my big crystal ball here on my desk if efuels can get to a good cost base they will start be stored and dispensed in smaller quantities as new car owners buy them, yes I agree the rural filling stations, far north and south west of the UK always tend to be slower to pick up on demand but as demand increases the unleaded high ethanol fuel storage will decrease and efuels capacity increases on site till eventually just a few specilist retailers hold teh older fuels, normally this is a fifteen to twenty year cycle. If efuels are genuine zero emmission and carbon footprint low and perhaps cost of converting a petrol ICE to efuel is a low cost say £1500, why would those efuels not come in quicker. Filling stations just keep on doing what they do just sell a diffrent liquid and no need for power leads hanginging out peoples letter boxes to charge an EV.
Simple co2 reduction from 40% hydrogen into the gas supply............no adjustment to consumer equipment required.
Typical UK blinkers from ALL politicians of ALL colours/persuasions.
|The solution is for anyone who professes to aspire to a career in politics to be taken to a quiet quarry and treated to 30 grammes of 9 mm diameter copper sheathed lead...............
As AH would have said..................allegedley
Ducks below parapet
'The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time'
Thank you Gareth for that fascinating and hopeful insight to vl future with eFuel. I have long thought that synthetic fuel is the answer. There a multiple millions of ICE vehicles around the world. Fuel stations are well established. Possibly this is why the multi-billion $ oil industry isn't panicking and in meltdown by the BEV threat.
Steve
2020 GTS in Sapphire Blue
(sold) 2017 SD in Rhodium Silver
I am about to set off Monday for 6 days in South West, Exmoor and then down the north coast to reach far Cornwall by Thursday and Friday with a one day drive back to Sussex on Saturday. It will be interesting to see what the supply of Premium E5 Fuel is like.
intriguing comment in the above Cross Turismo review:- "More, though, I’d like to see what Porsche could do with an EV that wasn’t 1.97m wide across the body and that weighed somewhat less than 2245kg. We’ll get the chance soon enough."
