Porsche slow to BEV Macan

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Nuclear Nick
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Post by Nuclear Nick » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:29 am

Neil1911 wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:56 pm
The issue with electrification is not so much the power stations as the cables under our roads, with the loads required they'll start melting the tarmac above!
It's both. Since the UK made the terminal error of not building more nukes as a result of pressure from the Greens and chicken politicians we are now stuffed. As a result the govt has to resort to paying large consumers not to consume at times of heavy demand and/or when the wind isn't blowing and the sun isn't shining. Gas prices have rocketed hence the restart of coal generation recently, since we are heavily dependent on (foreign) gas due to not building those nukes.......

I've been building up our stocks of candles, logs and camping gas for some years now.
Nick

Macan Turbo Sept ‘16 - sold Aug ‘21

991.2 C2 GTS March ‘18

BMW K1300S, BMW R1250 GSA

On-Track
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Post by On-Track » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:31 am

Nuclear Nick wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:29 am
Neil1911 wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:56 pm
The issue with electrification is not so much the power stations as the cables under our roads, with the loads required they'll start melting the tarmac above!
It's both. Since the UK made the terminal error of not building more nukes as a result of pressure from the Greens and chicken politicians we are now stuffed. As a result the govt has to resort to paying large consumers not to consume at times of heavy demand and/or when the wind isn't blowing and the sun isn't shining. Gas prices have rocketed hence the restart of coal generation recently, since we are heavily dependent on (foreign) gas due to not building those nukes.......

I've been building up our stocks of candles, logs and camping gas for some years now.
I agree but also think a major strategic mistake was made in prematurely shutting down and destroying perfectly good coal fired power stations. It played well with the Green lobby but has contributed to the country's energy vulnerability.
Peter

Current: 2020 Carmine Red GTS http://www.porsche-code.com/PMST9ZI9
Gone- 2015 Sapphire Blue Diesel
Gone -2013 Cayenne Diesel

OmniCognateSnr
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Post by OmniCognateSnr » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:46 am

New York has now followed the UK:

https://apple.news/Anrr3UvXKQLSOzZ_TTvB_-w

Col Lamb
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Post by Col Lamb » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:53 am

Porsche take their own time in producing incremental changes, anything radical for them like the Taycan takes an age to develop, remember is started years ago as the Mission and the snippets of info were drip fed for what seemed like years and years before they became available.

Same thing again with the electric Macan.

The thing I struggle with is why each division of the VW Group seems to be developing their own electric systems.

BTW, only yesterday I saw my first VW ID4 on the road so why can one VW division have a wide model range yet another have just one model which lets face it is just a development platform with the buyers of the Taycan in effect Beta Testers.
Col
Macan Turbo
Air, 20” wheels, ACC, Pano, SurCam, 14w, LEDs, PS+, Int Light Pack, Heated seats and Steering, spare wheel, SC, Privacy glass, PDK gear, SD mirrors, Met Black, rear airbags

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Nuclear Nick
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Post by Nuclear Nick » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:04 am

On-Track wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:31 am
Nuclear Nick wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:29 am
Neil1911 wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:56 pm
The issue with electrification is not so much the power stations as the cables under our roads, with the loads required they'll start melting the tarmac above!
It's both. Since the UK made the terminal error of not building more nukes as a result of pressure from the Greens and chicken politicians we are now stuffed. As a result the govt has to resort to paying large consumers not to consume at times of heavy demand and/or when the wind isn't blowing and the sun isn't shining. Gas prices have rocketed hence the restart of coal generation recently, since we are heavily dependent on (foreign) gas due to not building those nukes.......

I've been building up our stocks of candles, logs and camping gas for some years now.
I agree but also think a major strategic mistake was made in prematurely shutting down and destroying perfectly good coal fired power stations. It played well with the Green lobby but has contributed to the country's energy vulnerability.
True.
Nick

Macan Turbo Sept ‘16 - sold Aug ‘21

991.2 C2 GTS March ‘18

BMW K1300S, BMW R1250 GSA

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SAC1
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Post by SAC1 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:23 am

Interesting article in the Oct edition of CAR maazine by Gavin Green, titled:
"Manufacturing emmissions mean new EVs have a higher carbon footprint than a new petrol car"
and concludes with "So, instead of parading heavy new carbon-intensive EVs at Glagow, I suggest a fleet of well-maintained, fuel frugal lightweight Peugeot 107s......"

I just the hope that the good and the great have got this BEV solution right. In the music world we went from vinyl to tapes to cartridge [in two opposing formats] to CD to MP3 to memory stick to now down loads over the air. Intrigingly vinyl has made a come back laterly. :o

Bit like the car and the horse! Where I Iive in the countryside, there are more horses than ever and with all their emmissions!! :roll: :lol:
Steve

2020 GTS in Sapphire Blue
(sold) 2017 SD in Rhodium Silver

OmniCognateSnr
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Post by OmniCognateSnr » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:50 am

SAC1 wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:23 am
Interesting article in the Oct edition of CAR maazine by Gavin Green, titled:
"Manufacturing emmissions mean new EVs have a higher carbon footprint than a new petrol car"
and concludes with "So, instead of parading heavy new carbon-intensive EVs at Glagow, I suggest a fleet of well-maintained, fuel frugal lightweight Peugeot 107s......"

I just the hope that the good and the great have got this BEV solution right. In the music world we went from vinyl to tapes to cartridge [in two opposing formats] to CD to MP3 to memory stick to now down loads over the air. Intrigingly vinyl has made a come back laterly. :o

Bit like the car and the horse! Where I Iive in the countryside, there are more horses than ever and with all their emmissions!! :roll: :lol:
Trouble is if its an article in a car magazine then the assumption is there will be bias. Of course the same will be true if its an article in the independent or other green leaning paper or magazine. As with everything else in the world just at the moment ( vaccines, face masks, politics ) everything is either black of white when the real world works in shades of grey ( not the book ).

Electric is definitely the answer, except it involves digging great big hols in the rock we all live on and transporting the contents all over the planet and then burning more lumps of dug-up stuff to keep them running. Green leaning people don’t want to see that. Likewise you have coal rollers in the US specifically modifying their horrendous diesel monstrosities to make them look like satans steam engines. We all need to live in the middle somewhere.

What we need is a sensible science-based discussion on the best way forward. This may be hydrogen fuel cell, it may be better battery tech that doesn’t include digging holes everywhere or it may be bio fuels that enable us to carry on using our ICE cars but without people dying from the fumes around London’s ring roads.

But what we have is ever increasing histrionics and morons who think causing 15 miles traffic james on the M25 and endangering people lives and livelihoods is an appropriate solution. We also have the press increasing the furore with more and more divisive articles designed solely to get clicks or sell papers.

Nuclear is a sensible option. It produces next to no pollution, is cheap and easy but it has the word nuclear in it and when it goes wrong can be a tad unpleasant. However nuclear is such a pariah now that no politician would ever go near it. Coal really isn’t the answer because of the big holes again ( although with modern tech it can be made a lot less polluting ).

Sadly I suspect all we will get from now on is knee jerk reactions and with ill informed people like Gretta grabbing all the headlines we won’t get any common sense or sustainable solutions.

What we all need to accept is that the ill informed green argument has the stand just at the moment and is likely to have it long enough to ring the death nell of the ICE. So as I have said before, smoke ‘em whilst you’ve got ‘em.

Gents ( and ladies), whether we like it or not, agree with it or not, we are the dinosaurs and that large chunk of rock is heading our way.

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pmg
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Post by pmg » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:08 am

OmniCognateSnr wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:50 am


Nuclear is a sensible option. It produces next to no pollution, is cheap and easy but it has the word nuclear in it and when it goes wrong can be a tad unpleasant. However nuclear is such a pariah now that no politician would ever go near it. Coal really isn’t the answer because of the big holes again ( although with modern tech it can be made a lot less polluting ).
What about the radioactive waste from the used cores at the end of a plant's life.

I may be a simpleton and it is 50 years since I got an A in Physics A level and 57 since a first in first and second-year Applied maths. However, if climate change is caused by too much energy in the world's atmosphere by way of heat and carbon, the solution must be carbon capture and to take energy from the atmosphere by the way of wind, solar and wave rather than releasing more energy into the atmosphere by breaking atoms.
2019 Macan S Porsche code PKW8WKI8

OmniCognateSnr
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Post by OmniCognateSnr » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:24 am

pmg wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:08 am
OmniCognateSnr wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:50 am


Nuclear is a sensible option. It produces next to no pollution, is cheap and easy but it has the word nuclear in it and when it goes wrong can be a tad unpleasant. However nuclear is such a pariah now that no politician would ever go near it. Coal really isn’t the answer because of the big holes again ( although with modern tech it can be made a lot less polluting ).
What about the radioactive waste from the used cores at the end of a plant's life.

I may be a simpleton and it is 50 years since I got an A in Physics A level and 57 since a first in first and second-year Applied maths. However, if climate change is caused by too much energy in the world's atmosphere by way of heat and carbon, the solution must be carbon capture and to take energy from the atmosphere by the way of wind, solar and wave rather than releasing more energy into the atmosphere by breaking atoms.
Undoubtedly radio active waste is pretty nasty stuff, but likely ( and I am not a scientist and don’t claim to be one - got Physics o-level and did the first year of a physics degree before I realised I was crap at sums ) to be a lot less harmful on a global level than what we are currently doing. There are ways it can be dealt with.

I didn’t touch on carbon capture, which is potentially a good idea on a global scale although I will freely admit to not really knowing a whole bunch about how it works. However, I suspect it wouldn’t have helped that poor young girl who died from respiratory issues exacerbated by the traffic around the A40 ( may have the wrong road ) a couple of years back.

Personally I suspect the ultimate answer wont be a single answer, more a series of measures (again, not black or white solutions). I just think right at the moment most of them tend to be more about grabbing headlines than resolving the actual issues, without plunging as all back into the dark ages.

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pmg
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Post by pmg » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:39 am

OmniCognateSnr wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:24 am
pmg wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:08 am
OmniCognateSnr wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:50 am


Nuclear is a sensible option. It produces next to no pollution, is cheap and easy but it has the word nuclear in it and when it goes wrong can be a tad unpleasant. However nuclear is such a pariah now that no politician would ever go near it. Coal really isn’t the answer because of the big holes again ( although with modern tech it can be made a lot less polluting ).
What about the radioactive waste from the used cores at the end of a plant's life.

I may be a simpleton and it is 50 years since I got an A in Physics A level and 57 since a first in first and second-year Applied maths. However, if climate change is caused by too much energy in the world's atmosphere by way of heat and carbon, the solution must be carbon capture and to take energy from the atmosphere by the way of wind, solar and wave rather than releasing more energy into the atmosphere by breaking atoms.
Undoubtedly radio active waste is pretty nasty stuff, but likely ( and I am not a scientist and don’t claim to be one - got Physics o-level and did the first year of a physics degree before I realised I was crap at sums ) to be a lot less harmful on a global level than what we are currently doing. There are ways it can be dealt with.

I didn’t touch on carbon capture, which is potentially a good idea on a global scale although I will freely admit to not really knowing a whole bunch about how it works. However, I suspect it wouldn’t have helped that poor young girl who died from respiratory issues exacerbated by the traffic around the A40 ( may have the wrong road ) a couple of years back.

Personally I suspect the ultimate answer wont be a single answer, more a series of measures (again, not black or white solutions). I just think right at the moment most of them tend to be more about grabbing headlines than resolving the actual issues, without plunging as all back into the dark ages.
No there's a key principle hereof tackling the heart of the problem rather than going through too many steps sidestepping it. Climate change is too much energy in the atmosphere so take energy from the atmosphere rather than put more into it but just using such sources not enough as some of that just gets returned as heat so carbon capture via the likes of more trees and bogs need as well

Energy is not destroyed or created it just changes form. for example, crazy to put household heating bills by moving from old fashioned bulbs which released heat to LED which release no heat and claim LED bulbs are saving the planet
2019 Macan S Porsche code PKW8WKI8

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