MACAN DPF PROBLEMS

[VanB]

If my memory serves be correctly, Diesel and Petrol (Gasoline) are produced in the same process of distillation of crude oil so you get both for the same costs. Then the fuel is further refined and additives introduced but , as mentioned above, taxes are the main cost of fuel.

I do not see it the same way.

Yes, both are produced by the same process with Diesel being extracted from the process earlier than petrol.

So petrol has to undergo more processing and this processing has to include additional costs which at the very least is extra production plant, maintenance, replacement parts, design, build, taxable rates etc.

Those costs may not be reflected in figures we see that are released but they are there never the less.

The bean counters at the Refineries will have the precise costs per ml produced in their calculations that is for sure.

Actually, Col - petrol is a lighter factor and therefore produced before diesel (sorry to contradict). The heavier the product the further down the distillation chain it is produced.

[Tall Phil]

Now that I didn't know. I have always thought that diesel came first and petrol was a further distillate of that

[Pivot]

This explains the increase of cost of Diesel overtime:

http://www.petroleum.co.uk/refining

Read last paragraph under Diesel heading

[Paul]

As it’s quiet this afternoon.....

far right shows when the various products come off.....

[VanB]

It’s relatively simple - the more volatile the distillate the earlier it comes off in the process


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[Nuclear Nick]

Col is right. The process starts at the bottom of the tower with crude oil. Diesel comes off lower than petrol, therefore 'earlier' in the process. The more volatile, the higher up the tower, therefore 'later'.

[VanB]

Col is right. The process starts at the bottom of the tower with crude oil. Diesel comes off lower than petrol, therefore 'earlier' in the process. The more volatile, the higher up the tower, therefore 'later'.

Nick

Thank you but a simplistic view of the distillation of fractions from any source. Without being too much of a geek and in simple terms the more volatile a fraction the earlier it comes off in the distillation process. The concept of a distillation “tower” is to explain the level at which a distillate comes off. The higher up the tower the earlier it comes off in the process.

FYI my degree is in chemical engineering so I’m pretty sure that I am right!


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[Ray G]

Some interesting points above. Both petrol and diesel (and a whole host of other products) are produced during the distillation process so, no, it is no more expensive to produce diesel than petrol as they are simply different factors in the distillation process. Diesel is far more affected by seasonal factors as it is effectively the same product as heating oil.

Are we sure that duty on Diesel and petrol are the same? I seem to recall a few years ago a jump in diesel price as a result of the budget? Maybe fuel duty was increased in line with petrol?

Anyway, differential in price seems to be standing at about 12p per litre around these parts and I am not sure that's justifiable.

Very simplistically, a refinery works as follows:

The primary distillation process produces gases, LPG, light tops, naphtha, kerosine (jet fuel and paraffin), gasoil, heavy distillate and residue (low cost distillation).
Naphtha is then processed through a platinum reformer into LPG and platformate (high cost platinum reforming) or other secondary units.
Heavy distillate is processed through either a Fluid Cat cracker (high cost cracking), a hydro cracker (very high cost cracking) a Thermal cracker (lower cost cracking) or other secondary heavy oil processors.
Gasoline is blended from Butane, isopentane, tops, platformate, cat-cracked gasoline plus other components depending upon the complexity of the refinery.
Jet fuel is primarily from distillation or hydrocracking.
Gasoils are blended from kerosene, primary distilled gasoil, cat-cracked or thermally cracked gasoil and other components depending upon the complexity of the refinery.
Fuel oil is blended from the bottom of the barrel residual products.
All are subject to the economics of the day.
This is the very simplistic version and indeed, the refinery "bean counters" have great fun working out what to put where. I did it for nearly 35 years and loved every minute!@!! (Sad, I know)

[Pivot]

Very simplistically, a refinery works as follows:

The primary distillation process produces gases, LPG, light tops, naphtha, kerosine (jet fuel and paraffin), gasoil, heavy distillate and residue (low cost distillation).
Naphtha is then processed through a platinum reformer into LPG and platformate (high cost platinum reforming) or other secondary units.
Heavy distillate is processed through either a Fluid Cat cracker (high cost cracking), a hydro cracker (very high cost cracking) a Thermal cracker (lower cost cracking) or other secondary heavy oil processors.
Gasoline is blended from Butane, isopentane, tops, platformate, cat-cracked gasoline plus other components depending upon the complexity of the refinery.
Jet fuel is primarily from distillation or hydrocracking.
Gasoils are blended from kerosene, primary distilled gasoil, cat-cracked or thermally cracked gasoil and other components depending upon the complexity of the refinery.
Fuel oil is blended from the bottom of the barrel residual products.
All are subject to the economics of the day.
This is the very simplistic version and indeed, the refinery "bean counters" have great fun working out what to put where. I did it for nearly 35 years and loved every minute!@!! (Sad, I know)

Cool, actually! Thanks for the insight.

[Ray G]

Col is right. The process starts at the bottom of the tower with crude oil. Diesel comes off lower than petrol, therefore 'earlier' in the process. The more volatile, the higher up the tower, therefore 'later'.

Nick

Thank you but a simplistic view of the distillation of fractions from any source. Without being too much of a geek and in simple terms the more volatile a fraction the earlier it comes off in the distillation process. The concept of a distillation “tower” is to explain the level at which a distillate comes off. The higher up the tower the earlier it comes off in the process.

FYI my degree is in chemical engineering so I’m pretty sure that I am right!


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Without wishing to be pedantic there really is a distillation tower. The crude oil is heated on the way in and for every barrel processed the various fractions of that barrel come off at the same time, with the lights products coming off the top of the tower and the heaviest at the bottom and the other fractions in the middle.