COULD AN ELECTRIC MACAN BE THE BEST EVER !

[alxgb]

One of the issues that I've found with electric cars or driving hybrids in electric is the sensation of speed. Of course, you can go incredibly quickly but your perception of speed is different as the engagement with the vehicle is passive and you don't have the same auditory cues, it's drive mode and go.

I do think that this is a crucial difference between EV and ICE cars and I wonder whether EVs can ever really have soul. As you say, there's minimal auditory feedback and less of any emotional connection between driving inputs and response/experience, especially compared to a manual ICE (much as I like PDK). Maybe you pilot an EV rather than drive an ICE.

The new i8 convertible makes zero sense to me for this reason. You can hear the sound of the wind?

Pilot is probably in the right vein. Friend sold the 918 as he said he got bored 'driving a computer'. He is a complete luddite but I actually agree with his assessment on the basis of the lack of emotion.

[wizzzard]

What driving experience /thoughts have others had with electric powered cars.

I tried a MKIII Golf GTE for an extended test drive. Ignoring range issues, it was perfectly fine but not deserving of the GT prefix on the badge. I had hoped for an electric GTI but it was more Bluemotion with a dose of the GTI parts bin. The Tron styling put me off a bit. It managed to throw the power on my garage as the charger is rated at 13A but the initial load on connection is up to 20A. Not a thing in the manual, plug or cabling advising of this. It was definitely a step on from the previous model which I had also driven and while I though 'naah', this was more 'hmmm-naah'.

Had a BMW i8 for a little while. I quite liked the electromechanical noise and Star Trek sounds. It was the whine and whir of the electric motors but still bereft of emotion and it had the worst seats in any car I have ever driven. I hurt thinking about them. You could feel the weight of the car if you threw it around but it was a very resolved chassis given the battery mass it had to deal with. Not a practical car in a number of aspects, notably with respect to practicality and storage. Interface was excellent and highly intuitive and configurable. Range was fairly pitiful on electric - 30 - 40 miles if I recall but would make sense in somewhere like London. I did like the styling and the composite materials - it was a car that you could visually explore - lots of interesting angles and shapes.

Drove a friend's 918 Spyder. Unbelievable car as you'd expect. I don't think I'll ever forget the sound of the V8 kicking in when I put it in race from pure electric and put my foot down and it gave me every available KW and BHP. I don't think anyone need worry about an electric Porsche not being a 'true Porsche' based on my experience of driving that in electric. The electromechanical whirring was something that I could get used to and it had character. I would rather that than the actuators which manufacturers put in as 'apology'. The BMW i8 actuator was trying to make it sound like an M1 and when you opened the window and stuck your head out (for research, I'm not a dog), it was definitely a 3 cylinder MINI engine.

I guess the 918 and i8 offer the closest insight into what an electric sports car could be based on my experience but things have moved on a lot since they were developed. The Taycan Turismo concept could be really interesting and might be the first electric that I buy.

One of the issues that I've found with electric cars or driving hybrids in electric is the sensation of speed. Of course, you can go incredibly quickly but your perception of speed is different as the engagement with the vehicle is passive and you don't have the same auditory cues, it's drive mode and go. I find I go slower in faster cars (petrol) and am more conscious of my speed and interaction with the car, particularly with a manual or driving in manual on PDK. The only cue I have in electric is the speedometer reading and it's pretty hard to calibrate between 20-40. Maybe I'd get used to it if I had an electric for a decent length of time but that's possibly why the digital displays feature your speed at such scale as they tend to float in your peripheral vision. I know I'm certainly more conscious of observing the speedo but that may be adjustment to driving electric for me.

They are incredibly quiet. In an urban environment, you do have to take account of this. Driving the i8 through London, I had a much higher frequency of pedestrians stepping out in front me. I live in the countryside and again, awareness of the car with cyclists and other road users has its own challenges. I was driving along a country road and there was a horse ahead - slowed down and car was in electric. No acknowledgement - then I realised that the rider hadn't heard me because I had the piped in engine noise and assumed they were hearing that. Kicked the petrol engine in and it was enough to alert the rider but she did look startled as to how I sneaked up on her.

Interested to read of other people's experiences. Anyone tried an i-Pace?

Mate - this is a great insight for us folk who are yet to experience an electric drive. Thanks for sharing.

[GMAN75]

EVs are a complete folly. Packing a chassis full of batteries and claiming it to be revolutionary in terms of both design, motoring evolution and performance is a nonsense. Everyone knows and has known of the instant torque of an electric motor - for decades I might add! If we take that one step further and packing said batteries into a SUV chassis geared towards on and off road performance, you have the making of a 2.5 tonne + lump only being able to keep its wheels on the ground through the use of immense computing power. Ignoring all that, the range itself for a pure EV SUV would be tiny. If we then move to practicalities, not everyone has access to charging points, and the infrastructure to support the more charging points is not in the same realm as the marketing department of most of these car companies.

Porsche's approach, in my view, needs to be measured. It can twin EV with ICE as it does with its existing hybrid class but pure EV needs to be reserved for sports car classes exclusively, and even there I would expect only a few models, or the battery tech needs to evolve to a point where weight and charging times are reduced so significantly that it makes no difference to the ordinary motorist as to whether they're filling up or charging their car. I would never purchase an EV now where the tech is so rudimentary and the physics so basic to tell you that a heavy electric car can only go so far before you need to plug it in for 6 hours for a full charge.

My 2p.

[Deleted User 1874]

COULD AN ELECTRIC MACAN BE THE BEST EVER!

As an Ex Macan SD and then Turbo owner, never thought electric powered cars would be up to much till I tried out a Tesla X last week. WOW the power delivery is something else.
As auto boxes have in general had slippage, Manual gear boxes have generally been considered the best driving experience for control. Not anymore as an electric motor brings even more control than manual, as direct drive at all times with no gear change gaps, and max Torque at any speed from Zero right up to max speed.
The Tesla X was not for me, as not as rewarding to drive as the Porsche Chassis,
But made me think an electric Macan will be amazing to drive.
What driving experience /thoughts have others had with electric powered cars.

Having lived with a Tesla Model X as my daily drive and family hauler since Feb, I can tell you that I'm never buying another diesel again and any petrol engined cars I buy will only be for fun use on track or as a weekend toy. As far as drivetrain performance in the real world of stop/start traffic and motorway cruising goes, EV is a huge step forward in my book. As good as PDK is, it feels agricultural compared to a well sorted EV. You have to experience it to believe it as Mike clearly did!

I soon got used to the lack of powertrain noise and don't really miss it, especially at low speeds in stop/start traffic or at motorway cruising speeds. I remember having to crank up the music volume several notches in my Porsche at speed, but I hardly ever have to adjust it on the Tesla - maybe 1 notch up at 75 mph for wind/tyre noise. On hard acceleration I've got used to the subtle turbine noise of the Tesla motors and I quite enjoy it now I've tuned into it. In the real world it's considerably faster than my 997.2 C4S too. To keep up in a straight line to 100 mph would require a full red-line thrashing through the lower gears in the C4S, but it's always totally effortless in the Tesla and the instant torque response is unmatched. I only have the 480 hp base model 75D, but the P100D performance with well over 700 hp is frankly ridiculous, despatching all-comers with ease in the 1/4 mile and not much can live with it up to its 155 mph limiter either. My 75D starts to taper off at around 100 mph, but that's not really a bad thing in the UK. The 550 hp 100D is probably the better choice for high speed Euro driving, but it's a fair bit heavier (150 kg) and barely any quicker up to 70 mph. But as you might expect it pulls more strongly up to its 155 mph limiter and has about 50-60 miles more range. Mine is limited to 130 mph, which is plenty for UK driving!

Downsides? Range perhaps if you live somewhere remote or don't have home/work charging. Then there is battery weight. This will be the main challenge for Porsche making a long range EV SUV with handling to match the current Macan. It will be heavier for sure, but some of that can be compensated for with use of lightweight chassis materials and perhaps less clutter in the cabin. Minimalist efficient design is actually quite important for an EV. Premium ICE vehicles have been getting quite lazy with weight increase over the years, but moving to EV is likely to focus engineering attention on weight saving. Emotion/soul/driver engagement/engine sound? Well I think that all depends on the focus of the car in question. The Tesla X is not a sports car, but it handles decently well and better than most for a large 7-seater SUV. Only the smaller Macan and the Cayenne have better handling and the latter is pretty marginal IME. Put it this way, it's not at all difficult to drive at jail threatening speeds along a country road in the Model X. It has all the grip and power you need, it just reminds you of its weight when you are heaving along an undulating road or winding through a series of sharp bends, where a Macan would feel more nimble and composed on a demanding road. But if you put this kind of EV powertrain in a more focused sports car then it has the potential to be a major weapon, like the NIO EP9 for example.

So yeah, bring on a fully electric Macan replacement. It's basically what Tesla are planning with the upcoming Model Y (i.e. mid sized SUV) and what Jaguar are doing now with the iPace. VAG look to be positioning Audi as their premium EV brand for the next few years with their E-tron range, so Porsche will probably shell one of those platforms up in future. I'm looking forward to it anyway!

[Deleted User 1874]

EVs are a complete folly. Packing a chassis full of batteries and claiming it to be revolutionary in terms of both design, motoring evolution and performance is a nonsense. Everyone knows and has known of the instant torque of an electric motor - for decades I might add! If we take that one step further and packing said batteries into a SUV chassis geared towards on and off road performance, you have the making of a 2.5 tonne + lump only being able to keep its wheels on the ground through the use of immense computing power. Ignoring all that, the range itself for a pure EV SUV would be tiny. If we then move to practicalities, not everyone has access to charging points, and the infrastructure to support the more charging points is not in the same realm as the marketing department of most of these car companies.

Porsche's approach, in my view, needs to be measured. It can twin EV with ICE as it does with its existing hybrid class but pure EV needs to be reserved for sports car classes exclusively, and even there I would expect only a few models, or the battery tech needs to evolve to a point where weight and charging times are reduced so significantly that it makes no difference to the ordinary motorist as to whether they're filling up or charging their car. I would never purchase an EV now where the tech is so rudimentary and the physics so basic to tell you that a heavy electric car can only go so far before you need to plug it in for 6 hours for a full charge.

My 2p.

Weight is an issue for sure, but not the show-stopper you seem to think it is. The 2.5 tonne Tesla Model X 100D already has a real world range of around 260 miles (that's conservative, no compromise driving) while being the size of a Q7, which itself weighs 2.3 tonnes. As for keeping wheels on the ground, nothing is better than electric power for distributing power smoothly through both axles. The Model X is an awesome car on snow and the iPace will have amazing off-road traction capability. Basically all high powered cars require computer assisted slip control anyway and they don't require "immense computing power" to do that! Basically just a simple modest microprocessor is all that's needed in 2018. The whole control process is actually much easier and more refined with electric power. It's one of the main reasons why a Tesla can launch off the line so quick compared to any ICE car.

You've actually got your battery weight argument back to front too. It's the bigger cars that can live with the additional weight with little penalty, while a more focused sports car could be quite compromised. Porsche designers have made that point in the development of the Taycan and it was one of the main reasons they chose not to use a 911 or Cayman sized chassis for their first serious full EV project.

Charging times will come down to acceptable levels in pretty quick order. I can already charge my Tesla from 20-80% in about half an hour, not that I regularly need to. But I agree public charging infrastructure is not yet mature enough for someone without access to reliable home or work charging.

[alxgb]

EVs are a complete folly. Packing a chassis full of batteries and claiming it to be revolutionary in terms of both design, motoring evolution and performance is a nonsense. Everyone knows and has known of the instant torque of an electric motor - for decades I might add!

Out of interest, have you seen 'Who killed the electric car?'