VW/Porsche /Audi e-Recall due to Charger Cadmium?

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davetronic
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VW/Porsche /Audi e-Recall due to Charger Cadmium?

Post by davetronic » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:10 pm

I have always had a wary respect for Lithium batteries et all, after finding out about the disadvantages of dealing with them at work a while back. I’m still trying to be open minded about an EV if I’m still around when they become truly viable. Battery disposal was always an issue, plus not being able to airfreight the stuff we needed. Just reminded of this after being shown this article by a mate with an UP: https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/7005080 ... d-recalls/
It mentions Porsche, presume Cayenne/Panamera? Unless it’s only in Germany?
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Dandock
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Re: VW/Porsche /Audi e-Recall due to Charger Cadmium?

Post by Dandock » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:53 pm

davetronic wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:10 pm
I have always had a wary respect for Lithium batteries et all, after finding out about the disadvantages of dealing with them at work a while back. I’m still trying to be open minded about an EV if I’m still around when they become truly viable. Battery disposal was always an issue, plus not being able to airfreight the stuff we needed. Just reminded of this after being shown this article by a mate with an UP: https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/7005080 ... d-recalls/
It mentions Porsche, presume Cayenne/Panamera? Unless it’s only in Germany?
I don’t see UK models being any different to German variants.
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Peteski
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Re: VW/Porsche /Audi e-Recall due to Charger Cadmium?

Post by Peteski » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:49 pm

The Sun wouldn't be my first choice for reliable news, but presuming this is factually correct then it's the battery charger that appears to be the issue here, not the actual battery. But it does illustrate the learning curve manufacturers are going through with this new technology.


davetronic
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Re: VW/Porsche /Audi e-Recall due to Charger Cadmium?

Post by davetronic » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:43 pm

That was my first thought when I first read it but have been told it’s the charging aspect built in the car, otherwise they wouldn’t need to recall the car. I guess we’ll know soon enough. Incidentally, I don’t read the Sun these days, but when I worked offshore years ago we had the Sun & Telegraph delivered every day. It always surprised me that when it came to hard news the Sun inevitably was more accurate and usuall earlier. Just had to wade through all the dross though!
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MikeM
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Re: VW/Porsche /Audi e-Recall due to Charger Cadmium?

Post by MikeM » Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:31 am

If Cadmium is not disposed of correctly and gets into the water table it's highly poisonous, NiCd batteries been around almost as long as Lead Acid's, although now banned in Europe. You may find you have some old rechargeables around your home/shed etc. The article states that there are 0.0003 grams in a charger, who found it 😖. The fact is all battery materials are either highly volatile/toxic or both. Lithium in large quantities buried and exposed to water will burn for years. Whilst there is a great deal of discussion re future for EV's, infrastructure etc, the future safe handling and disposal requirements make the recycling of our ICE's positively clean 😉
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Peteski
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Re: VW/Porsche /Audi e-Recall due to Charger Cadmium?

Post by Peteski » Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:55 am

davetronic wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:43 pm
That was my first thought when I first read it but have been told it’s the charging aspect built in the car, otherwise they wouldn’t need to recall the car. I guess we’ll know soon enough. Incidentally, I don’t read the Sun these days, but when I worked offshore years ago we had the Sun & Telegraph delivered every day. It always surprised me that when it came to hard news the Sun inevitably was more accurate and usuall earlier. Just had to wade through all the dross though!
That makes sense as the a/c charger is built into the car to convert to d/c. But it should be no different in principle to any other a/c charger that you use to charge your phone, laptop, cordless drill, etc. There's nothing particularly special about charging Lion vs other battery types either. Only difference in this case is the relatively high output current, if that's a factor. Haven't heard of any issues with Tesla chargers (yet), which are far more powerful than the ones mentioned in the article.


Peteski
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Re: VW/Porsche /Audi e-Recall due to Charger Cadmium?

Post by Peteski » Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:11 am

MikeM wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:31 am
If Cadmium is not disposed of correctly and gets into the water table it's highly poisonous, NiCd batteries been around almost as long as Lead Acid's, although now banned in Europe. You may find you have some old rechargeables around your home/shed etc. The article states that there are 0.0003 grams in a charger, who found it 😖. The fact is all battery materials are either highly volatile/toxic or both. Lithium in large quantities buried and exposed to water will burn for years. Whilst there is a great deal of discussion re future for EV's, infrastructure etc, the future safe handling and disposal requirements make the recycling of our ICE's positively clean 😉
I believe most of the millions of small scale batteries used in phones, laptops etc currently end up in landfill, probably because people simply throw them in the waste bin or conventional recycling plants are unable or unwilling to deal with them. But it's not going to be the same situation with much larger car batteries for a number of reasons. In principle these batteries are close to 100% recyclable, it just needs the commercial/political motivation to actually do it and that's the challenge facing the next generation. At least with large scale car batteries you can't simply toss them in your bin to dispose of, so the vast majority will end up in specialist recycling plants, probably tied to the vehicle manufacturers. I believe there's already a very successful program of recycling conventional lead acid car batteries and very few of those end up in land fill today (at least in the UK).


Col Lamb
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Re: VW/Porsche /Audi e-Recall due to Charger Cadmium?

Post by Col Lamb » Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:08 am

Peteski wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:11 am
MikeM wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:31 am
If Cadmium is not disposed of correctly and gets into the water table it's highly poisonous, NiCd batteries been around almost as long as Lead Acid's, although now banned in Europe. You may find you have some old rechargeables around your home/shed etc. The article states that there are 0.0003 grams in a charger, who found it 😖. The fact is all battery materials are either highly volatile/toxic or both. Lithium in large quantities buried and exposed to water will burn for years. Whilst there is a great deal of discussion re future for EV's, infrastructure etc, the future safe handling and disposal requirements make the recycling of our ICE's positively clean 😉
I believe most of the millions of small scale batteries used in phones, laptops etc currently end up in landfill, probably because people simply throw them in the waste bin or conventional recycling plants are unable or unwilling to deal with them. But it's not going to be the same situation with much larger car batteries for a number of reasons. In principle these batteries are close to 100% recyclable, it just needs the commercial/political motivation to actually do it

and that's the challenge facing the next generation.

At least with large scale car batteries you can't simply toss them in your bin to dispose of, so the vast majority will end up in specialist recycling plants, probably tied to the vehicle manufacturers. I believe there's already a very successful program of recycling conventional lead acid car batteries and very few of those end up in land fill today (at least in the UK).
And that is precisely why the world is screwed.

Each generation has totally failed to solve the problems of the previous generations.

In fact in some respects things have got far worst in the last twenty years with the rampant disposable consumerism and corporate and individual greed.

There is no light at the end of the tunnel there is only some poor sod with a torch powered by NiCad cells.
Col
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Peteski
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Re: VW/Porsche /Audi e-Recall due to Charger Cadmium?

Post by Peteski » Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:56 am

Col Lamb wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:08 am
Peteski wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:11 am
MikeM wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:31 am
If Cadmium is not disposed of correctly and gets into the water table it's highly poisonous, NiCd batteries been around almost as long as Lead Acid's, although now banned in Europe. You may find you have some old rechargeables around your home/shed etc. The article states that there are 0.0003 grams in a charger, who found it 😖. The fact is all battery materials are either highly volatile/toxic or both. Lithium in large quantities buried and exposed to water will burn for years. Whilst there is a great deal of discussion re future for EV's, infrastructure etc, the future safe handling and disposal requirements make the recycling of our ICE's positively clean 😉
I believe most of the millions of small scale batteries used in phones, laptops etc currently end up in landfill, probably because people simply throw them in the waste bin or conventional recycling plants are unable or unwilling to deal with them. But it's not going to be the same situation with much larger car batteries for a number of reasons. In principle these batteries are close to 100% recyclable, it just needs the commercial/political motivation to actually do it

and that's the challenge facing the next generation.

At least with large scale car batteries you can't simply toss them in your bin to dispose of, so the vast majority will end up in specialist recycling plants, probably tied to the vehicle manufacturers. I believe there's already a very successful program of recycling conventional lead acid car batteries and very few of those end up in land fill today (at least in the UK).
And that is precisely why the world is screwed.

Each generation has totally failed to solve the problems of the previous generations.

In fact in some respects things have got far worst in the last twenty years with the rampant disposable consumerism and corporate and individual greed.

There is no light at the end of the tunnel there is only some poor sod with a torch powered by NiCad cells.
I'm not sure that's totally accurate. If we look at air pollution in the UK, it has actually improved significantly since the 1970s. I do agree about the rampant consumerism and greed though!


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Paul
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Re: VW/Porsche /Audi e-Recall due to Charger Cadmium?

Post by Paul » Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:40 pm

Greed is probably the driving factor behind the past success of properly recycling old lead car batteries - at £5.00 each for example it’s amazing how few DON’T get recycled!
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