So .. the real cost to the economy

[Deleted User 1874]

Those Tesla stats are quite impressive..............................

I still can't see it as 'the future' though..............................interim solution at best. We still have the electricity generation issues to overcome, especially in anticyclonic Britain during the depths of winter.

Interim, as in most of our lifetimes.... Who knows where technology will go in 100 years or 1000 years from now, but it's pretty obvious that EVs are going to play a major part in personal transportation over the coming decades. There may well be room for alternative technologies alongside and hybrids are probably going to be a major interim solution over the next decade, although I'm starting to think BEVs will eclipse them sooner rather than later. The fuel cell alternative doesn't seem to be gaining any traction judging by the industry news. For example at Porsche it's all now talk of a BEV future and the development path is well under way.

[Deleted User 1874]

It has been proven time and time again that governments are more than willing to apply a tax retrospectively. Please don't ever think that by simply being an early adopter of something will excuse you from tax down the line! It won't.

Just not sure what that means in the context of EVs. Pretty sure that if you score a government grant to help buy an EV or charger that they're not subsequently going to ask for that back. And tax bands for vehicle licencing, BIK etc change all the time anyway. Absolutely agree that there's no reason to believe that these won't go up in future (though it will depend on how quickly road-pricing is introduced), but there's nothing new to see there.

It may be tricky for the government to tax electricity used for EVs differently from any other electric supply. Certainly for home charging it would be difficult to distinguish EV charging from general electric use, short of licencing home chargers which hmm seems pretty unlikely IMO.

Retrospective taxation is just that...it is taxation or other charges levied on the consumer (in this case the motorist) where policy changes. You only need to look at the diesel road tax charges and parking surcharges applied to diesel drivers. I can just imagine a case where new EV tech supercedes old and spurious issue concerning environmental sustainability or some other such rubbish will apply to old EVs as opposed to new. Don't ever underestimate a government's sheer greed for tax. It will get it.

Just don't drive an old EV then!

Of course tax revenue will need to be generated in one form or another unless we want to live with degrading public infrastructure. Generating tax revenue is certainly not an inherent problem with EV technology, it just requires a major change in the way that revenue will have to be collected in future.

[Deleted User 1874]

Perhaps the powers that be have already realised they are going to need more cash from EV drivers:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/ ... brids.html

I think they are just testing the water in trying to remove artificial incentives to buy EVs, hoping that they will sell themselves anyway. At some point you have to expect that you will not get any government grant for buying a car! They are also obviously worried about the sheer cost of subsidising the sales of EVs as they ramp up exponentially over the next few years. The only argument is the timing of the cuts, which many feel is too early. It probably will kill off budget PHEVs sales, but the £1K difference is going to have zero effect on Tesla sales!

[johnd]

I still can't see it as 'the future' though..............................interim solution at best. We still have the electricity generation issues to overcome, especially in anticyclonic Britain during the depths of winter.

http://fes.nationalgrid.com/media/1264/ ... r-v032.pdf

[Deleted User 1874]

I still can't see it as 'the future' though..............................interim solution at best. We still have the electricity generation issues to overcome, especially in anticyclonic Britain during the depths of winter.

http://fes.nationalgrid.com/media/1264/ ... r-v032.pdf

As usual the popular media has been greatly exaggerating the "issues" and a good reason never to read anything published by the Daily Mail etc. or at the very least don't take anything they say to be gospel or even remotely accurate.

[GMAN75]

I still can't see it as 'the future' though..............................interim solution at best. We still have the electricity generation issues to overcome, especially in anticyclonic Britain during the depths of winter.

http://fes.nationalgrid.com/media/1264/ ... r-v032.pdf

As usual the popular media has been greatly exaggerating the "issues" and a good reason never to read anything published by the Daily Mail etc. or at the very least don't take anything they say to be gospel or even remotely accurate.

I would venture to say that there are exaggerated issues on both sides. That report is littered with assumptions, none of which I might add, have even the most remote chance of being achieved by any government in the UK within the next 20 years, leave alone 13! If you want to electrify the vehicles using the road, the infrastructure required to maintain that must be installed. It won't be. It won't even come close. This is la la land politicking as its best. For God's sake, the country can't even build itself a runway or a new train line within that timeframe! It's taken more than 10 years to finance and build 1 tunnel across London!

These leaks from the government are used to test appetite and to gauge opinion. Anyone going to campaign on a promise like that we've seen over the past few weeks will be obliterated from any number of lobbies. ICE cars will be around and available well beyond these daft "initiatives".

[Dandock]

Way back in about the early-mid 1980s I was in a meeting at a office at GEC in Warwick. During that meeting we were told that GEC had just received a brief from HM Gov to explore the development of offshore wind farms. It seemed like Star Wars tech at the time.

All new developments take foresight and time. Unless there are members who are involved in the relevant sciences, and can talk, who knows what’s coming down the road?

[Dandock]

Home fuel cell is the answer. In Japan, you come home in your Honda Clarity, then instead of charging the car by plugging it in, you plug the car in to run the house..................

Makes sense to me. Battery is old hat. they are not efficient and are only as good as the weakest cell........................... A significant break through in battery technology is required - it does not appear to be imminent. Solid state is not making the step from the lab to mass production.............

Making some very bold statements there with no meaningful reasoning. How about explaining to us why you think a home fuel cell is the answer? Or the inherent advantages in running your house off a Honda Clarity? I'm not getting any of this at all.

Overflow. The Leaf has just been approved in Germany for this exact use.

https://apple.news/A5nGBHtPPQwWy3xK6MJuG2w

[GMAN75]

Way back in about the early-mid 1980s I was in a meeting at a office at GEC in Warwick. During that meeting we were told that GEC had just received a brief from HM Gov to explore the development of offshore wind farms. It seemed like Star Wars tech at the time.

All new developments take foresight and time. Unless there are members who are involved in the relevant sciences, and can talk, who knows what’s coming down the road?

I think that demonstrates my point. You were talking about the early to mid 1980s. Discussions, I understand, started in 1998 with the first opening in 2001. There's 21 years right there.

Extrapolate that to providing a completely integrated infrastructure, upstream and downstream, to electrify every motor vehicle on the road. I wish I could go down to William Hill to get the odds on any government, given the instabilities which exist in the UK now, to deliver that within 13 years.

[Dandock]

Way back in about the early-mid 1980s I was in a meeting at a office at GEC in Warwick. During that meeting we were told that GEC had just received a brief from HM Gov to explore the development of offshore wind farms. It seemed like Star Wars tech at the time.

All new developments take foresight and time. Unless there are members who are involved in the relevant sciences, and can talk, who knows what’s coming down the road?

I think that demonstrates my point. You were talking about the early to mid 1980s. Discussions, I understand, started in 1998 with the first opening in 2001. There's 21 years right there.

Extrapolate that to providing a completely integrated infrastructure, upstream and downstream, to electrify every motor vehicle on the road. I wish I could go down to William Hill to get the odds on any government, given the instabilities which exist in the UK now, to deliver that within 13 years.

Stuff happed a whole lot slower then - just compare period and contemporary computer power. And I don't know that MPs expect it either but without a target to aim at we're all going nowhere. And as I'm sure Peteski will confirm, with the right (F1) mindset all things are possible - if unlikely!