Electric Macan

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bennachie
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Post by bennachie »

Those of you who believe that EVs will be cheap to run are sadly deluded. If you think any government is going to lose out on its vehicle taxation/fuel taxation revenues you will be surprised to know that there is specific charging revenue software already built into the terminals; this no doubt, in addition to road pricing which is sitting in the wings.........................
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Pivot
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Post by Pivot »

bennachie wrote:Those of you who believe that EVs will be cheap to run are sadly deluded. If you think any government is going to lose out on its vehicle taxation/fuel taxation revenues you will be surprised to know that there is specific charging revenue software already built into the terminals; this no doubt, in addition to road pricing which is sitting in the wings.........................
^^^ exactly ^^^
Early adopters of EV are incentivised for current inconvenience — of limited vehicle range and limited charging places — to build the momentum. However, as soon as the EV market achieves scale, the taxes will kick-in to re-balance the books.

I remember in 1970’s Diesel was half the price of Petrol, which reflected the cost of production plus modest margin at the time. My dad’s MB 200D was as slow as a donkey, but what a fantastic ride, especially on holidays across Eurp.
Today, Diesel is more expensive than Petrol, at the pump! Margins have not increased that much... taxes have!

So, if EV suits your lifestyle and range/charging is not a limiting factor for you, enjoy the benefit, while it lasts.
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bennachie
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Post by bennachie »

^^^ exactly ^^^

How refreshing Pivot.


Have to admit being tempted by I-Pace but incredible ineptitude of the dealer put me off and the shape has 'changed' to my eyes now and I no longer find it so appealing.
Interestingly, I first enquired about I-P un July before I bought my Macan S; Jag dealer rang last week and enquired if I would like to test one as they had one....was I still interested.........wtf? No says I, you are off the Pace, I bought a Porsche..............
5-6 months? Spec. to Macan S 85k..... waaay too expensive
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mark-yorkshire
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Post by mark-yorkshire »

Pivot wrote: Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:52 pm
bennachie wrote:Those of you who believe that EVs will be cheap to run are sadly deluded. If you think any government is going to lose out on its vehicle taxation/fuel taxation revenues you will be surprised to know that there is specific charging revenue software already built into the terminals; this no doubt, in addition to road pricing which is sitting in the wings.........................
^^^ exactly ^^^
Early adopters of EV are incentivised for current inconvenience — of limited vehicle range and limited charging places — to build the momentum. However, as soon as the EV market achieves scale, the taxes will kick-in to re-balance the books.

I remember in 1970’s Diesel was half the price of Petrol, which reflected the cost of production plus modest margin at the time. My dad’s MB 200D was as slow as a donkey, but what a fantastic ride, especially on holidays across Eurp.
Today, Diesel is more expensive than Petrol, at the pump! Margins have not increased that much... taxes have!

So, if EV suits your lifestyle and range/charging is not a limiting factor for you, enjoy the benefit, while it lasts.
Fuel duty on petrol and diesel in the U.K. is exactly the same. The differential in retail price of diesel and fuel is down to the refineries not government.
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2018. Macan SD Volcano.
2005. 987.1 Boxster S. Black.
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2014. Macan SD . Jet black.
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johnd
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Post by johnd »

bennachie wrote: Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:24 pm If you think any government is going to lose out on its vehicle taxation/fuel taxation revenues you will be surprised to know that there is specific charging revenue software already built into the terminals;
Which particular 'terminals' are we talking about here?
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bennachie
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Post by bennachie »

Charging points, fast chargers. Obviously the snail charge at home can't have such sophisticated software in it.............yet.
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johnd
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Post by johnd »

bennachie wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:19 pm Charging points, fast chargers. Obviously the snail charge at home can't have such sophisticated software in it.............yet.
So, effectively rapid chargers you mean. Well I guess it's a contingency measure just in case the road pricing doesn't work out for some reason. Presumably it's easy enough to include in any firmware and a fairly obvious back-up to have.

But I really wonder how likely it is to be used? Of course the government has to recoup its lost taxes somehow (though it has managed with tobacco so far) and road building & maintenance has to be paid for. My guess is that road pricing will be the first port of call - it's the most obvious and fairest of all the options - those that use the roads the most, especially the busiest roads, will pay the most. But yes if that can't be made to work or isn't politically acceptable then alternatives will probably need to be found.

But given that most EV charging will be home charging, which will be tricky to tax, it would be rather inequitable to tax only rapid chargers. And for those who have solar panels at home and run their EVs off them (at least mostly) how would the taxation work?

All in all, I think that this is probably a topic for the mid/late 2020's. Can't see the need for extra taxation trumping the need for an incentive to switch to EVs before then.
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goron59
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Post by goron59 »

I wonder what people (real people, not fanbois) think of the charging infrastructure in the UK now.
Looking at the ZapMap live feed, it doesn't look too good. Lots of out-of-orders, broken connectors, failed to start charging, taxis-only (and not advertised as such), ICEd points, etc. Not so bad if each site has half a dozen or more points, but they are usually singles. At least around here (London).

Of course, ZapMap reports are a bit like Waze reports - it not very useful - it's easy for me to report a point out of order now, so I've got a better chance of using it later, for example. Kind of like stereotypical Germans putting their towels out on the loungers before dawn.

Given nobody does anything about gaming Waze to clear routes in advance, who's going to regulate false reporting on the charging infra?
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Previously a 2014 Macan Turbo.
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johnd
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Post by johnd »

goron59 wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:16 pm I wonder what people (real people, not fanbois) think of the charging infrastructure in the UK now.
Think you need to qualify that question as Tesla or non-Tesla. Tesla looks adequate to OK for en route charging. Non-Tesla CCS (which is effectively the question I think) is indeed patchy for now and one of the reasons I've decided against an EV this time around, much though they appeal (but next time, and maybe before too long).

But the CCS charger landscape does seem to be changing quite quickly and my guess is that by mid-2020 say things will have improved markedly on several fronts like:

* Simply more charger locations - all sorts of initiatives happening right now eg with Tesco, Ionity UK builds have started, Ecotricity upgrades, is there a deal to be done with Tesla sites(?) etc
* More multi-stall chargers
* Teething problems of compatibility between new EVs and particular chargers will hopefully be resolved soon
* More uniformity of access, especially payment methods, across different charging networks
Last edited by johnd on Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Macan SD (Rhodium) www.porsche-code.com/PH4H6XU3 June 2016

Real mpg at Fuelly
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Post by Deleted User 1874 »

bennachie wrote: Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:24 pm Those of you who believe that EVs will be cheap to run are sadly deluded. If you think any government is going to lose out on its vehicle taxation/fuel taxation revenues you will be surprised to know that there is specific charging revenue software already built into the terminals; this no doubt, in addition to road pricing which is sitting in the wings.........................
EVs are night and day cheaper to run and will be for at least the next decade. Beyond that it's not really worth discussing today. The way things are heading, it's fossil fuelled cars that are going to get ever more expensive to run in the foreseeable future. But I'm happy to be sadly deluded :lol:
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