Electric Macan

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Deleted User 1874

Post by Deleted User 1874 »

goron59 wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:16 pm I wonder what people (real people, not fanbois) think of the charging infrastructure in the UK now.
By "real" people I presume you mean people who actually use it? From what I can gather on EV forums it's a mixed bag and depends a lot on how much you have to use it. The vast majority of EV owners do their daily charging at home and there are very few big battery EVs on the market, so not many are used for longer journeys outside of the Tesla supercharger network. Taking a small battery EV long haul is always going to be hard work anyway. It's the iPace owners who are likely to be the first group to really stress test the public charging infrastructure and there are not many of those around right now. The public chargers I pass on a daily basis appear to be vacant most of the time and more likely to be used by hybrids than full EVs.

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Post by goron59 »

johnd wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:32 pm
goron59 wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:16 pm I wonder what people (real people, not fanbois) think of the charging infrastructure in the UK now.
Think you need to qualify that question as Tesla or non-Tesla. Tesla looks adequate to OK for en route charging. Non-Tesla CCS (which is effectively the question I think) is indeed patchy for now and one of the reasons I've decided against an EV this time around, much though they appeal (but next time, and maybe before too long).

But the CCS charger landscape does seem to be changing quite quickly and my guess is that by mid-2020 say things will have improved markedly on several fronts like:

* Simply more charger locations - all sorts of initiatives happening right now eg with Tesco, Ionity UK builds have started, Ecotricity upgrades, is there a deal to be done with Tesla sites(?) etc
* More multi-stall chargers
* Teething problems of compatibility between new EVs and particular chargers will hopefully be resolved soon
* Simpler interoperability between different charging networks
I suppose this is more non-Tesla, given the reports on ZapMap, and personally, I can't see myself buying anything from Tesla in the foreseeable.

I was at Porsche East London today and I could see 3 charge points, two free and one with a Panny hybrid parked up, but not connected as far as I could see. Not a problem at an OPC though as you could always pop in and ask an offending ICEr to move.

A couple of local street chargers near me had gone taxi-only - which is worrying if that is a trend.

Your points above on CCS are good and I would agree that as more people have EVs, especially BEVs, things will improve. Some charging companies will go bust or be bought out. Standards will improve. Owner knowledge will improve. And I'm sure people will find their favourite charging points and times to suit their common use cases, much as people now tend to always go to the same petrol/diesel stations.
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Pivot
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Post by Pivot »

@Peteski, what is your car charge time and power consumption, when charging overnight at home? I am concerned that unless you have a Tesla PowerWall and enough sun to charge it, it might get rather expensive.

Years ago, I used to have a heated swimming pool... it was awesome, but expensive to run with a 2kW heating element installed after the water filter warming-up the pool overnight. Power consumption was insane (equivalent to boiling water in the kettle... the whole night). At today’s energy prices it would not be an intelligent proposition.

I am a big fan of Tesla and all that is built by Musk, including the “not-flamethrower”, just I am not geared for EV (as yet!)
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Post by goron59 »

What's the Tesla charging efficiency? 80%? 85% ? If it was 85% then you'd need 75/0.85 kWh of energy from supply to charge P75D. Then look at the tariff to see how much that costs. Obviously 0-100% charge never happens, but you can adjust accordingly.
I imagine Economy 7 (or whatever it's called these days) would be beneficial here. Or living in a country where it's sunny and you have solar.

My tariff is 16.32p/kWh, so a two thirds charge (50kWh, or what, 150 miles or something?) would be 50 * £0.1632 / 0.85 = £9.60
A cheaper tariff would definitely help here.

Cheaper than ICE after a few (or a lot depending on the car) years if you switch.
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Post by johnd »

goron59 wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:45 am My tariff is 16.32p/kWh, so a two thirds charge (50kWh, or what, 150 miles or something?) would be 50 * £0.1632 / 0.85 = £9.60
A cheaper tariff would definitely help here.

Often easiest to do price comparisons on a pence per mile basis, which would be ca 6ppm on your calculation above. This compares to my SD at around 17ppm, with petrol presumably in the 25-30ppm bracket, especially if you use the expensive stuff. So small differences in estimates of eg EV charging efficiency or range really don't move the price comparison much.
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Post by Paul »

@goron, FWIW my economy 7 is 7.28 pence per kw/h
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Post by goron59 »

Paul wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:44 am @goron, FWIW my economy 7 is 7.28 pence per kw/h
Thanks Paul. I think it's time to revisit my tariff :)
Used to have 2016 Macan Turbo PHCKCL70
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Deleted User 1874

Post by Deleted User 1874 »

goron59 wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:45 am What's the Tesla charging efficiency? 80%? 85% ? If it was 85% then you'd need 75/0.85 kWh of energy from supply to charge P75D. Then look at the tariff to see how much that costs. Obviously 0-100% charge never happens, but you can adjust accordingly.
I imagine Economy 7 (or whatever it's called these days) would be beneficial here. Or living in a country where it's sunny and you have solar.

My tariff is 16.32p/kWh, so a two thirds charge (50kWh, or what, 150 miles or something?) would be 50 * £0.1632 / 0.85 = £9.60
A cheaper tariff would definitely help here.

Cheaper than ICE after a few (or a lot depending on the car) years if you switch.
Charging efficiency on a 240V 32A charge is conservatively around 90%. I currently have a single rate tariff at 11.6 p/kWh, but looking to switch to E7 shortly, which should drop the tariff down to around 8 p/kWh overnight.

So in terms of cost a full 75 kWh charge currently works out at £9.66, or about 5 p/mile. On E7 it would be more like 3 p/mile and that is undoubtedly the way to go if you own a big battery EV. We're planning to get a second EV in 2019, which will then make E7 a no-brainer.

On any longer trips or whenever I'm passing by our local Tesla charging station, I get the bonus of free supercharging. I'd say I get around 10% of my total mileage for free that way. I also use the occasional free Tesla destination charger, but probably insignificant in terms of cost saving, maybe a few quid here and there.

I really ought to look into solar as we have a huge south facing roof, just need to look into the payback time on the installation. I don't think it's as good as it was a few years ago, but if it's well under 10 years I might go for it.
Last edited by Deleted User 1874 on Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Deleted User 1874 »

Pivot wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:04 pm @Peteski, what is your car charge time and power consumption, when charging overnight at home? I am concerned that unless you have a Tesla PowerWall and enough sun to charge it, it might get rather expensive.

Years ago, I used to have a heated swimming pool... it was awesome, but expensive to run with a 2kW heating element installed after the water filter warming-up the pool overnight. Power consumption was insane (equivalent to boiling water in the kettle... the whole night). At today’s energy prices it would not be an intelligent proposition.

I am a big fan of Tesla and all that is built by Musk, including the “not-flamethrower”, just I am not geared for EV (as yet!)
As above, charging efficiency is around 90%, so I use around 83 kWh to fully charge my 75 kWh battery. I have an 8 kW wall charger, which is able to charge a flat battery to full in around 10 hours, although in practice it's typically topping up overnight what I've used in the day, which is typically 30-40% of the battery, so around 3-4 hours actual charging. The running cost is as shown in my previous post and basically far cheaper than petrol or diesel.
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Post by Col Lamb »

Economy 7 type tariffs have a possible major drawback so do bear this in mind if you are considering making the switch.

Yes the overnight rate is cheap but and it is a big BUT, in non Economy 7 times the rate per kWh can be substantially higher.

So to be effective you need to have washing machines, dishwashers, immersion heaters etc operate during E7 times, you may even find installing an electric storage heater(s) beneficial in that this/these can offset gas usage.
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