Is Co2 really that bad.

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SP6IGHT
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Post by SP6IGHT »

Should we celebrate Carbon Dioxide. This is a really interesting article.

Link - http://www.thegwpf.org/patrick-moore-sh ... n-dioxide/

The paragraph below is just an extract. I recommend you read it all if you have time.

It is a proven fact that plants, including trees and all our food crops, are capable of growing much faster at higher levels of CO2 than present in the atmosphere today. Even at the today’s concentration of 400 ppm plants are relatively starved for nutrition. The optimum level of CO2 for plant growth is about 5 times higher, 2000 ppm, yet the alarmists warn it is already too high. They must be challenged every day by every person who knows the truth in this matter. CO2 is the giver of life and we should celebrate CO2 rather than denigrate it as is the fashion today.

and if you don't want to read you can watch the presentation on you tube via this link

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Paul
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Post by Paul »

Ineresting counter-argument!

The problem is, there are as many arguments for as there are against, and scientists (on both sides) can proove almost anything because the majority of us do not fully understand. Pop in a couple of political, hidden agendas and a few vetsed interests and the waters become even muddier!
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Col Lamb
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Post by Col Lamb »

Somewhere along his career someone stuck a red hot poker up his ass.

The fact that he seems to have flipped from one side to another should raise alarm bells.

The simple fact that CO2 levels in the atmosphere are now higher than at any time in the measurable history of the Earth should cause far more concern than it does.

Before anyone asks, ice cores give a very measurable set of results of the atmospheric conditions prevailing at specific times in the past.

There is sweet FA that my generation can do about it but unless drastic action is taken then there will be serious problems for the generations to come.
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goron59
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Post by goron59 »

He's right about "Yet today our children and our publics are taught that CO2 is a toxic pollutant that will destroy life and bring civilization to its knees."
And Col's comment is an indication that that that is working: "... unless drastic action is taken then there will be serious problems for the generations to come."

Yes, CO2 levels are higher in recent times. Is it bad? Maybe, as there are links to raising sea temperatures.. is it the biggest threat to humanity? I doubt it. I suspect political egos, wealth gaps, nimbyism, self righteousness (oh, I drive an EV and take my own cup to Starbucks) will do more harm to future generations.

Yesterday, I spent a couple of hours at major aquarium, and much of the content and messages are about conservation, reducing waste and plastics etc... then what do you see at the end? A McDonalds with everyone just throwing their wrappers and plastic bottles on the ground, kids kicking a lost pigeon, parents not giving a fuck... and that last bit is the killer of society. Parents not giving a fuck and passing that attitude to the next generation.

From that piece above, I think I like this best:
Today, Greenpeace protests Russian and American oil rigs with 3000 HP diesel-powered ships and uses 200 HP outboard motors to board the rigs and hang anti-oil plastic banners made with fossil fuels. Then they issue a media release telling us we must “end our addiction to oil”. I wouldn’t mind so much if Greenpeace rode bicycles to their sailing ships and rowed their little boats into the rigs to hang organic cotton banners. We didn’t have an H-bomb on board the boat that sailed on the first Greenpeace campaign against nuclear testing.
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Pivot
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Post by Pivot »

People should be more concerned about CO (carbon monoxide) rather than CO2 which we consume with sparkling mineral water.
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johnd
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Post by johnd »

Is CO2 really that bad? Yes, unequivocally - at least too much CO2 in the wrong place (the atmosphere) is bad.

Is it an essential plant 'nutrient'? Of course. But that doesn't begin to compensate for its temperature-raising effects which are continuing to happen slowly but inexorably and in 50-100 years' time WILL be a major concern to peace, global food & water supply etc.

The problem is that year on year there's not too much change evident and so people can brush it away, but decade on decade the impact is clearly there. Once melting of land ice (Greenland, Antarctica etc) really starts to set in (2040/2050? And not that far away!) there'll be no going back, short of a series of major volcanic eruptions or a nuclear war or large meteor impact on the earth, which may bring their own problems.
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Paul
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Post by Paul »

johnd wrote: Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:56 am Is CO2 really that bad? Yes, unequivocally - at least too much CO2 in the wrong place (the atmosphere) is bad.

Is it an essential plant 'nutrient'? Of course. But that doesn't begin to compensate for its temperature-raising effects which are continuing to happen slowly but inexorably and in 50-100 years' time WILL be a major concern to peace, global food & water supply etc.
And that’s the issue; your caps repeat the “party line” whereas the article suggests that it is temperature rise that creates an increase in CO2 (effect not cause)

I’m not qualified to give a definitive answer either way!

I prefer goron’s grumpy old man approach. The lack of respect and common decency in today’s civilised world......
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Col Lamb
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Post by Col Lamb »

Undertake any research on CO2 and you will find that it is the Greenhouse gas that is most likely to be responsible for global warming.

It is and continues to be produced un-naturally by transportation and industry including electricity generation.

To me the main problem is that we have no hard evidence of the effects of high levels of CO2 in the atmosphere as the Earth has not experienced such measurable high levels of CO2 as currently exist.

A scientist such as the articles author does a disservice to all by belittling the state of the problems facing humanity.

The strong argument he makes is that of a lobbyist and we all know that lobbyists are well paid by organisations who have contradictory interests in their own agendas.

As I have been saying here for the past few years the rampant capitalist nature of the worlds economy is at fault for the vast majority of the woes of the world coupled with a global population that is exploding at a rate unequalled. All this does not bode well, alas I have no idea how it is going to be amicably resolved.
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Paul
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Post by Paul »

Not sure if anyone else actually read the article in full?

and, again, I'm not qualified, BUT I am confused by Col's firm convictions (above) and the contradictions (below)

Our best inference from various proxies back indicate that CO2 was higher for the first 4 billion years of Earth’s history than it has been since the Cambrian Period until today. I will focus on the past 540 million years since modern life forms evolved. It is glaringly obvious that temperature and CO2 are in an inverse correlation at least as often as they are in any semblance of correlation. Two clear examples of reverse correlation occurred 150 million years and 50 million years ago. At the end of the Jurassic temperature fell dramatically while CO2 spiked. During the Eocene Thermal Maximum, temperature was likely higher than any time in the past 550 million years while CO2 had been on a downward track for 100 million years. This evidence alone sufficient to warrant deep speculation of any claimed lock-step causal relationship between CO2 and temperature.

As to the article's author being a lobbyist, I wonder who benefits.......??
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On-Track
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Post by On-Track »

That is a really interesting article. To me, the problem with global warming is that there is a body of people who say "the science is proven and there is no need for further debate. Here we have a scientist who has put forward an argument based on a series of facts. Why can't there be a proper peer review which either confirms those facts and the interpretation or provides logical argument as to why they are incorrect.

Too much of the climate change predictions are based on computer modelling. I was involved on the edge of work to model suspension behaviour on railway vehicles. Before any predictions were made, a large amount of effort was put into validating the model. There does not seem to be much evidence of that in the climate change world.

To the best of my knowledge, there are no qualified climate change scientists on this forum so the debate will not be advanced very far.

Thanks to the OP for finding that article. As I said earlier, it made for very interesting reading.
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