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Re: Macan BEV v Facelift

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:16 am
by Pivot
FreddyB123 wrote:
Peteski wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:14 am
Pivot wrote: Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:57 pm I am not a fan of Toyota, but they are doing most things right and it shows:
I am somewhat surprised that Audi ranks higher then Porsche [emoji2957]
Lexus = boring, dull, totally uninspiring dross. The fact that they may be reliable is of very little consolation.
Toyota = like Lexus, but cheaper
Mazda = functional, but about as exciting as choosing a dishwasher
Subaru = weird noisy plasticky ugliness
Kia = the sensible budget choice and some interesting ideas
Infiniti = just no!
Great analysis Peterski!
:D :D :D
Perhaps elitist?
Some people need a workhorse, some need a people carrier, some need a fashion statement, some need a consumer electronic gadget on wheels, other a skateboard with an engine... permutations are endless and vehicle manufacturers understand that their user’s expectations will be different.
I recognise that this is Porsche forum, but we have to recognise that we are sharing this planet with 7 billion of other humanoids and they prefer to buy other cars.

Re: Macan BEV v Facelift

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:52 am
by FreddyB123
Pivot wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:16 am
FreddyB123 wrote:
Peteski wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:14 am

Lexus = boring, dull, totally uninspiring dross. The fact that they may be reliable is of very little consolation.
Toyota = like Lexus, but cheaper
Mazda = functional, but about as exciting as choosing a dishwasher
Subaru = weird noisy plasticky ugliness
Kia = the sensible budget choice and some interesting ideas
Infiniti = just no!
Great analysis Peterski!
:D :D :D
Perhaps elitist?
Some people need a workhorse, some need a people carrier, some need a fashion statement, some need a consumer electronic gadget on wheels, other a skateboard with an engine... permutations are endless and vehicle manufacturers understand that their user’s expectations will be different.
I recognise that this is Porsche forum, but we have to recognise that we are sharing this planet with 7 billion of other humanoids and they prefer to buy other cars.
Or perhaps just a bit of fun??! :roll:

Re: Macan BEV v Facelift

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:29 am
by Col Lamb
Peteski wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:49 am
Davidone wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:40 am Just for interest

My wife has a Toyota LC, bought new in 2006, now covered 287,000 miles..........faults/problems during that time....Zero

Food for thought....
There's no doubt that Toyota are kings of reliability, but unfortunately their cars have zero appeal to me beyond that.
A work colleague bought a new Toyota Rav.

What a load of shxt it was, with a very cheap and nasty interior, uncomfortable seats, but worst of all the ride quality was by leaps and bounds the absolute worst of any vehicle that I have every been in.

Nearest I can think of is a Beamer on M suspension and run flat wheels with no tyres fitted, twas so bad.

So yeah reliabilty is no doubt excellent and I can see hundreds of thousands of miles being put on the car with all the journeys to the Chiropractor.

Re: Macan BEV v Facelift

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:04 am
by Deleted User 1874
Pivot wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:16 am
FreddyB123 wrote:
Peteski wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:14 am

Lexus = boring, dull, totally uninspiring dross. The fact that they may be reliable is of very little consolation.
Toyota = like Lexus, but cheaper
Mazda = functional, but about as exciting as choosing a dishwasher
Subaru = weird noisy plasticky ugliness
Kia = the sensible budget choice and some interesting ideas
Infiniti = just no!
Great analysis Peterski!
:D :D :D
Perhaps elitist?
Some people need a workhorse, some need a people carrier, some need a fashion statement, some need a consumer electronic gadget on wheels, other a skateboard with an engine... permutations are endless and vehicle manufacturers understand that their user’s expectations will be different.
I recognise that this is Porsche forum, but we have to recognise that we are sharing this planet with 7 billion of other humanoids and they prefer to buy other cars.
Not elitist at all - see my summary of Kia. I like what Kia are doing. Toyota not so much.

But it's interesting what you say about people's expectations being different. I think one of the reasons why budget brands tend to score more highly than most premium brands in owner satisfaction surveys is down to exactly that. Not the only reason, but I'm pretty sure it's a factor. Lexus are a notable exception, but Porsche vs Audi possibly provides some indication of this effect. Are Porsche owners simply more fussy than Audi owners? Who knows, but I don't personally find lists like this much use when choosing a car.

Re: Macan BEV v Facelift

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:13 am
by Deleted User 1874
Col Lamb wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:29 am
Peteski wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:49 am
Davidone wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:40 am Just for interest

My wife has a Toyota LC, bought new in 2006, now covered 287,000 miles..........faults/problems during that time....Zero

Food for thought....
There's no doubt that Toyota are kings of reliability, but unfortunately their cars have zero appeal to me beyond that.
A work colleague bought a new Toyota Rav.

What a load of shxt it was, with a very cheap and nasty interior, uncomfortable seats, but worst of all the ride quality was by leaps and bounds the absolute worst of any vehicle that I have every been in.

Nearest I can think of is a Beamer on M suspension and run flat wheels with no tyres fitted, twas so bad.

So yeah reliabilty is no doubt excellent and I can see hundreds of thousands of miles being put on the car with all the journeys to the Chiropractor.
Awful name for a car too. They might as well have named it "Chav 4" really. Of their entire range, only the little Aygo interests me as a city runabout. Our neighbour has one and it looks quite neat.

Re: Macan BEV v Facelift

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:56 pm
by happy days
I did a tour of South Africa once and hired a car for three weeks. It was supposed to be a VW but upon collection it was a Toyota Corolla. It was possibly the worst piece of driving equipment that I experienced in my life. Uncomfortable, plasticky, nasty, yucky thing it was. It almost ruined my holiday. I couldn't wait to get out of it each evening.

Re: Macan BEV v Facelift

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:24 pm
by Deleted User 1874
happy days wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:56 pm I did a tour of South Africa once and hired a car for three weeks. It was supposed to be a VW but upon collection it was a Toyota Corolla. It was possibly the worst piece of driving equipment that I experienced in my life. Uncomfortable, plasticky, nasty, yucky thing it was. It almost ruined my holiday. I couldn't wait to get out of it each evening.
That reminds me I test drove a Toyota Auris a few years ago when I was bored with cars and just wanted something simple and cheap. It was a truly depressing experience never to be repeated!

Re: Macan BEV v Facelift

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:47 pm
by Pivot
Peteski wrote:
Pivot wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:16 am
FreddyB123 wrote: Great analysis Peterski!
:D :D :D
Perhaps elitist?
Some people need a workhorse, some need a people carrier, some need a fashion statement, some need a consumer electronic gadget on wheels, other a skateboard with an engine... permutations are endless and vehicle manufacturers understand that their user’s expectations will be different.
I recognise that this is Porsche forum, but we have to recognise that we are sharing this planet with 7 billion of other humanoids and they prefer to buy other cars.
Not elitist at all - see my summary of Kia. I like what Kia are doing. Toyota not so much.

But it's interesting what you say about people's expectations being different. I think one of the reasons why budget brands tend to score more highly than most premium brands in owner satisfaction surveys is down to exactly that. Not the only reason, but I'm pretty sure it's a factor. Lexus are a notable exception, but Porsche vs Audi possibly provides some indication of this effect. Are Porsche owners simply more fussy than Audi owners? Who knows, but I don't personally find lists like this much use when choosing a car.
I agree completely, brand and corresponding price sets an expectation.

I have an allergic reaction to cheap Korean cars, just like many people had to Japanese cars in 1960s. However, I do respect them for progress they made over the years and I am delighted to see them help less fortunate people to get mobile, possibly get work and earn a better living, e.g. Uber drivers in developing countries.

Re: Macan BEV v Facelift

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:25 am
by Deleted User 1874
Pivot wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:47 pm
Peteski wrote:
Pivot wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:16 am
Perhaps elitist?
Some people need a workhorse, some need a people carrier, some need a fashion statement, some need a consumer electronic gadget on wheels, other a skateboard with an engine... permutations are endless and vehicle manufacturers understand that their user’s expectations will be different.
I recognise that this is Porsche forum, but we have to recognise that we are sharing this planet with 7 billion of other humanoids and they prefer to buy other cars.
Not elitist at all - see my summary of Kia. I like what Kia are doing. Toyota not so much.

But it's interesting what you say about people's expectations being different. I think one of the reasons why budget brands tend to score more highly than most premium brands in owner satisfaction surveys is down to exactly that. Not the only reason, but I'm pretty sure it's a factor. Lexus are a notable exception, but Porsche vs Audi possibly provides some indication of this effect. Are Porsche owners simply more fussy than Audi owners? Who knows, but I don't personally find lists like this much use when choosing a car.
I agree completely, brand and corresponding price sets an expectation.

I have an allergic reaction to cheap Korean cars, just like many people had to Japanese cars in 1960s. However, I do respect them for progress they made over the years and I am delighted to see them help less fortunate people to get mobile, possibly get work and earn a better living, e.g. Uber drivers in developing countries.
IMHO both Kia and Hyundai currently have more interesting product portfolios than their Japanese counterparts. For me the Japanese brands have pretty much lost the plot as far as I'm concerned or looking at it another way they have simply been overtaken by the Koreans with fresh products and more innovative tech. It's a changing world.