BF66UST beware

[Arnie]

Good man! Your country of origin nowadays doesn’t mean that much.

I lived and worked in a number of diverse places and I recon that your contribution and professional affiliation is more important then your ethnic group [emoji851]

Thank you for posting... I learned something today.

In my home land if you go to a buy a car by default you assume it was clocked, crashed, cloned etc. And you work by doing checks to prove it is not.

In UK it is opposite, everyone assumes it’s all good, but you do checks just in case.

I’ve learnt over the years that UK should be the same, and you should not trust anybody who is trying to sell you a car, even dealer. Maybe a bit harsh but I was subject to fraud, and I discovered it, but most people are driving their crash damaged HPI clear cars with no knowledge somebody made few good quid by selling them potentially unsafe car.

And tbh UK is my home as I’ve been here 14 years now. And I promise I did not come here to take anyone’s job;)

[Deleted User 2325]

This type of practice should not come as a shock. Look at the sales of ‘classic’ cars, they often have a wealth of new parts. Best to buy new from a specialist approved dealer and throw away thousands in newbie depreciation to avoid it. Then keep the car as long as possible.

[Nosmo]

To add to Arnie's comment. A couple of days ago a friend of mine came for a natter and told me what had happened to him, very recently.

It is apparently possible for independent trades to get "stock finance". In short, no car is required. However, as soon as a car is bought, the finance company has to be notified of the motor to put a lien on it etc.

He had had a call from a "private buyer". After a conversation, this buyer agreed to come to see the car in person and asked for some questions, including reg plate etc, to do some background checks. No sale took place, no deposit money changed hands, no handshakes made, no promises. Only, "I'm coming on xday to have a look".

In the meantime, during a service to make sure the car was top spec with FSH, the dealership offered better money than the potential buyer and so a decision was made sell it to the dealer.

Now here is where @arnie is absolutely right and it get scary. When a call was made to cancel the visit later that week, my friend was threatened. He was told (and I paraphrase); "You sold me the car! The car is mine and you will now take whatever money I pay for it". Bear in mind, this is a high performance sporty number. "Try selling this car to anyone else and you'll discover I am not lying"

You may wonder how that is possible. Read on.

Shocked, my friend calls the dealership and tells them the story. It turns out that he indeed no longer the owner. During a standard HPI check a finance flag is found. It's the finance company of a well known brand who are registered current owners...

Calls to flag the fraud to the finance company, the DVLA, his insurer and the police are all shut down. The first 2 on privacy grounds, the insurer telss him it's impossible and the police with the comment that it is a civil matter. In fact, the DVLA told him a cheque had been raised to reimburse the outstanding road tax already.

Are you scared yet???

Through a stroke of luck, my friend discovers who the buyer (edited: the owner of the trading dealership and the caller responding to his advertisement) is and calls him to put it to him that he will sue for fraud if this isn't dropped immediately (a deadline with the potential dealership buyer is at risk of falling through - as you'll appreciate). The "private buyer" isn't private at all. He is a trader. More luck. Someone senior in the fraud department of the finance company (which had no interest to get involved when he called at first as they own the car and they don't care whether the repayments are kept up....) heard of the fraud through a mutual acquaintance and called to listen.

This is how it works. The trade buyer with the "stock finance loan" had sold my friend's car (sales invoice raised!!) to himself with all relevant details and told the finance company the car's details. The DVLA writes to INDIVIDUALS when their V5 changes hands / or when changes are made. No such checks are (apparently) made for trade buyers or the checks are cursory at best. As the notification of change of ownership hadn't reached him yet, he was non the wiser when he made the call to cancel the visit. The only thing you need is a finance company willing to push the boundaries.

It shouldn't be possible, should it?

[Arnie]

You would think it is all too complicated etc but there is a long list of ways to make money in car trade these days[emoji28]

[Nosmo]

If you are still not redacting your licence plate when posting pictures of your pride and joy, the above hopefully changes that habit.

[Arnie]

FYI: https://www.vcheck.uk/report/R17MUS-NLIB8TGF/

Car currently has a new owner since 2019-08-01 and has been put on a private plate: R17MUS

Road tax has been purchased on 1st of September. So it looks like it is back on the road

[Bazza06]

It was stolen by breaking into the house and stealing the keys.
Never bought a keyless car and don’t ever intend to.

Here's why I might buy keyless in the future.

If they want the car and have the technology to grab the code without entering my home so be it. I would rather keep them out of my house and away from my family.

And I won't buy a tracker either because I do not want any car back that's been in the hands of those that have driven them so recklessly and pulled them apart trying to search for a tracker.

Manufacturers have developed some better technology to deter relay attacks against keyless vehicles including motion detection and distance measuring. The former will not emit a signal if the key isn't moving and the latter will detect if the key is further away from the vehicle beyond its accepted range.

Whilst this prevents relay attack, for now, it's only a matter of time before they find away around this and in the meantime they will revert to house break-ins.

Goodnight All.

[TheTraveller]

I don't know why the manufacturers of our cars, especially top end cars that have computer systems as part of them. Don't use that system to strengthen the security. IMO, I'm sure it would be a simple task to programme the starter system, to require a code to enable it to be started. Much the same as our mobile phones. And without that code, they would not start. And it would not be needed everytime, depending if the driver on switching off, when stopping is asked if the code needs to be deleted. It would be the divers option.
All the systems are there, it just needs programming into it.

[Arnie]

That starter program code... would’t be simpler to slot key in and turn? Key would be unique to each car and have extra chip so if somebody copies just a blade it wont start either...

Hmm I am having some de ja vu moment, like somebody came up with type of security in the past...

[emoji23][emoji23]

[Bazza06]

The issue partly came about when European legislation dictated that manufacturers could not have sole rights to program the keys to the vehicles they make.

So it was opened up to anyone and in doing so the download of the software that was originally locked in to dealers became available to many.

I know of regulated locksmiths that have the software to be able to recode keys via the OBD port or emulate the code to open a keyless vehicle, and they are selling these devices to whoever has the money to buy.

Of course, they will say they do not tolerate the use of these devices for illegal purposes, but they are not stopping the sale of these items or making any enquiries as to who the purchaser is and why they want them.