New Macan Out in 2021

[Dandock]

The other major issue that has been predicted but is only just being discussed with the rise of EVs is the reduction in the taxation take.

TBH I think that governments have been well aware of this for a long time and it has been widely discussed in EV circles. The general consensus seems to be that the financial incentive to go EV will remain unchanged for some substantial time (though the EV grant may well vanish soon) to encourage EV take-up. And in perhaps 5-10 years time general road pricing will take over from fuel duty, which will put EV and fossil cars on an equal footing.

And in the interim until road charging there’s likely to be a substantial shortfall.

[johnd]

And in the interim until road charging there’s likely to be a substantial shortfall.

Obviously that depends on the level of EV take-up. But assuming that EV penetration increases as forecast then I guess that's the price of incentivising EV adoption. A prudent government might well have road pricing plans ready to roll when they judge the time is right, but I appreciate that's a big ask.

[Cheshire Cat]

Having done some research into this issue, I'm more confused than ever. Solid state is the way to go but, the current (sigh) producers have invested millions in the present 'wet' Lithium batteries and are not likely to just stop production until they have recouped their investment. Some companies are stating SS batteries will be technically available in three to five years but longer for a mass produced item for the reasons stated. Also read that Fisker, the crazy car company, are months away from a scalable solid state battery. Toyota however have said the following:

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/toyota-may-introduce-solid-state-batteries-for-electric-cars-by-2020/

2020 for a working SS battery powered vehicle?

[Deleted User 1874]

2020 for a working SS battery powered vehicle?

Bear in mind this is a company that was in total BEV denial until very recently. So I wouldn't hold your breath on that.

[Deleted User 1874]

The other major issue that has been predicted but is only just being discussed with the rise of EVs is the reduction in the taxation take. Cheap charging simply cannot be sustainable.

But it's not really a major issue for anyone buying an EV today. Petrol/diesel cost is pretty much a worse case baseline to start from. Charging costs are a full order of magnitude cheaper. Today I just did a 250 mile round trip which cost me about £5 in electricity. I'm sure we'll all be paying some sort of road usage tax by 2030 when the percentage of ICE cars drops off significantly, but that's a still a long way off. Meanwhile I'm enjoying minimal running costs.

[Deleted User 1874]

Nowhere to charge, he says - even the Tesla showroom is without.

Tesla shiowrooms don't typically have chargers, although there are some at Tesla Heathrow. I've never had trouble charging in London. There are plenty of superchargers at various sites dotted around the city, so not sure what your mate is talking about.

I know he’s specifically talking about late at night but he’s a good, knowledgeable, intelligent and pragmatic guy so I’ve no reason to doubt him.

Superchargers are available 24/7 so late at night is not going to be a specific issue in itself. I'm just wondering why his car should have a flat battery in the first place when pottering around late at night. The only time I need Superchargers is when I'm nowhere near home or a convenient destination charger. I'm not saying he doesn't have a specific issue, but it doesn't sound like typical car usage.

[Deleted User 1874]

What if you cannot have a home charger.

Yes that is a genuine issue for smooth EV ownership. Some people can get around this by being able to charge at their workplace and others might just manage if they live somewhere with loads of public chargers (e.g. Milton Keynes). You seem to be f***** though!

[SAC1]

The difference in RRP between a premium model BEV and and an equivalent premium model ICE car today is so large.

As an example, Jaguar is a company that produces both. Their base prices are - i-Pace £64,4495 and F-Pace 3.0d £52,290. So you get somewhere in the region of 65,000 miles of diesel use for free even with the higher annual road tax. Depreciation is predicted to be at a similar level for both. The ICE car is a lot cheaper to insure and there is no range anxiety.

[Wing Commander]

^^^ By contrast the Taycan Turbo and Turbo S are actually less than their Panamera cousins.

[Deleted User 1874]

The difference in RRP between a premium model BEV and and an equivalent premium model ICE car today is so large.

As an example, Jaguar is a company that produces both. Their base prices are - i-Pace £64,4495 and F-Pace 3.0d £52,290. So you get somewhere in the region of 65,000 miles of diesel use for free even with the higher annual road tax. Depreciation is predicted to be at a similar level for both. The ICE car is a lot cheaper to insure and there is no range anxiety.

How expensive is an F-Pace with similar performance to the I-Pace? But anyway I always thought the I-Pace was pretty expensive. I pay roughly the same monthly PCP on my Model X, which was actually considerably cheaper than a Volvo XC90 T8 or hybrid Cayenne. Finance was a LOT cheaper (1.5% APR) and the GMFV higher, which more than offset the higher list price. Finance is much more expensive now, but you do get the stellar performance level for similar money.

Then you look at a fully loaded Model 3P at £50k, which looks good value next to a BMW M3 or any other mid sized super-saloon. Add in the running costs, BIK etc and the EVs are now way cheaper. It's a rapidly changing landscape.