Question: Macan vs Audi Q5 - Anyone considering moving?

[Bazza06]

Looking at the cockpit images I much prefer the Macan setup.

I do not like the "stuck on iPad" type design.

[Rab J]

My SD is coming up for 5 years old soon.

Have my eye on a new GTS but in an idle moment took a Q5 55 hybrid for a test drive this week and was surprisingly impressed. The performance is pretty good in hybrid mode, not quite as punchy as the GTS but probably satisfying enough most of the time. I like the interior, the dash is more modern than in the Macan. Not much feel in the steering which is were the GTS is superior. Q5 feels lighter, but cornering not in the same league as the GTS.

There are some good deals around at the moment on the Q5 and I am unexpectedly tempted!

However I have loved my SD and not sure about the leap from Porsche to Audi. I have never owned an Audi.

Any views to dissuade me welcome! Would be interested if anyone else has tried the Q5 hybrid. One thing none of the reviews mentions is what happens when the battery has no range on its own. Does the regenerative system still provide electric power to boost performance or are you just on the petrol engine alone, presumably with a noticeable drop in performance?

Richard

As a Cayenne plug in hybrid driver I have experience of something very similar to the Q5 ehybrid. The battery will never fully depletes its self when running electric alone . It keeps a fairly significant percentage of charge in reserve to complement the ICE. This is why the thing feels to sharp even when its saying battery power is fully depleted. I think its a great halfway house on the way to fully electric.
On a down side the stuck on ipad on the dash would rule it out for me. I have been casting around for something for my wife, either Q5 or Q3. The Q3 has the centre screen build in so would be looking at that and giving the Q5 a bye.

[Cheshire Cat]

Q5? No, it can be summed up in three words 'Fake exhaust tips'.

[bennachie]

Forget the inside, the engine, the inferior gearbox and the wooden steering feel; just stand back and look at the three-quarter views and full on front.................. then walk off to the Pork dealer.........

[MikeM]

A hybrid setup can always drive power through the electric motors irrespective of held battery power as the increased engine revs when you accelerate creates electricity straight into battery and out to motors.

The first law of thermodynamics states "energy cannot be created or destroyed". If the battery in a hybrid drive system is exhausted then the only available energy is the output of the internal combustion engine.

In a hybrid, the usual location of the electric motor is within the transmission where it will either take power from the battery to supplement that from the ICE or take power from the ICE to recharge the battery. I assume there is something in the control software that stops it draining power from the ICE during periods of maximum power demand.

In normal traffic conditions, it will be very hard to drive the car in a way that will totally prevent the engine from giving up some power to recharge the battery. But if you drive in electric mode until the battery is exhausted, until a degree of recharging has taken place the performance will be no better than a similar car fitted with an ICE only.

You’ve got it almost right, for a full hybrid set up between the ICE the battery and the electric motors there is a controller that can push recharge into the battery directly via increased revs or slowing (aka regenerative energy) and simultaneously draw power to drive the electric motors. The battery will never be totally exhausted even if you attempt to stay in electric mode only as the control program will switch the engine back into play as soon as it reaches app 80% discharge, therefore you will always have both power sources available and cannot create the situation where you are accelerating without the aid of the electric motors. So you will never get a situation where a hybrid under power will perform as a non hybrid equivalent.

[Nuclear Nick]

A hybrid setup can always drive power through the electric motors irrespective of held battery power as the increased engine revs when you accelerate creates electricity straight into battery and out to motors.

The first law of thermodynamics states "energy cannot be created or destroyed". If the battery in a hybrid drive system is exhausted then the only available energy is the output of the internal combustion engine.

In a hybrid, the usual location of the electric motor is within the transmission where it will either take power from the battery to supplement that from the ICE or take power from the ICE to recharge the battery. I assume there is something in the control software that stops it draining power from the ICE during periods of maximum power demand.

In normal traffic conditions, it will be very hard to drive the car in a way that will totally prevent the engine from giving up some power to recharge the battery. But if you drive in electric mode until the battery is exhausted, until a degree of recharging has taken place the performance will be no better than a similar car fitted with an ICE only.

You’ve got it almost right, for a full hybrid set up between the ICE the battery and the electric motors there is a controller that can push recharge into the battery directly via increased revs or slowing (aka regenerative energy) and simultaneously draw power to drive the electric motors. The battery will never be totally exhausted even if you attempt to stay in electric mode only as the control program will switch the engine back into play as soon as it reaches app 80% discharge, therefore you will always have both power sources available and cannot create the situation where you are accelerating without the aid of the electric motors. So you will never get a situation where a hybrid under power will perform as a non hybrid equivalent.
068643D2-19F0-429B-9447-D3FCF882B019.jpeg

Useful explanation Mike, but I think Peter's intention was to clarify that the total power will never be more than that available from both ICE and battery. Your statement 'irrespective of held battery power' might imply to some that, magically, additional electrical power was available to supplement the ICE power, even with a flat battery. But you're now saying that there will always be a minimum of 20% electrical power in the battery held in reserve to add to the ICE power. And even if the ICE is using 'increased engine revs' to generate electrical power, that energy is coming from burning additional fuel. That's wasteful in the overall energy balance as there are mechanical and electrical losses at each stage of conversion. But the real point here is that whatever form of power is driving the vehicle, it has to come the ICE, the battery, or both, but will never add up to more than the ICE and battery power sources.

[MikeM]

Useful explanation Mike, but I think Peter's intention was to clarify that the total power will never be more than that available from both ICE and battery. Your statement 'irrespective of held battery power' might imply to some that, magically, additional electrical power was available to supplement the ICE power, even with a flat battery. But you're now saying that there will always be a minimum of 20% electrical power in the battery held in reserve to add to the ICE power. And even if the ICE is using 'increased engine revs' to generate electrical power, that energy is coming from burning additional fuel. That's wasteful in the overall energy balance as there are mechanical and electrical losses at each stage of conversion. But the real point here is that whatever form of power is driving the vehicle, it has to come the ICE, the battery, or both, but will never add up to more than the ICE and battery power sources.

Hi Nick, just to clarify, the hybrid configuration doesn’t allow for a flat battery but I didn’t intend to imply that there is 20% in reserve to provide power, the reserve is to ensure battery efficiency. All of the electricity generated is via the engine revolutions whether accelerating, coasting or braking, electrical energy is being created and this power is being routed back via the battery which acts as a power store and conduit to allow the electric motors to always be in play when needed. So at high speed all 3 components are engaged, ICE/BATT/E-Ms. When at low speed the ICE drops out, if the battery becomes discharged the ICE auto starts to top up, drive or both. This means that a Hybrid with its two drive sources v conventional ICE equivalent will always have more “available” power output to drive the vehicle. This is how the likes of Land Rover can get away with a small engine in Range Rover’s using light hybrid technology, although you went get very far on electric only as the battery is far to small. Apologies to everyone for hi-jacking this thread.

[jkwade]

I came from Audi, albeit a A6 Avant.

I therefore had driven a few of the Audi cars as courtesy cars.

I just cant get on with the new Audi MMI system in the later cars and the Q5 is still running previous gen MMI.

Yes the Porsche brand may command higher prices on the way in, but on the way out you’ll see the flip side.

A £65,000 SQ5 after 3 years will be worth somewhere in the early £20’s trade in. You’ll probably get 15% off so that’s £52k, that gives £30k depreciation

Macan Turbo, will cost you £70k. there’s not one under £40k on Autotrader, so say late £30s trade in. Again £30k depreciation.

And don’t forget nearly 100bhp more in the Turbo

So you’re getting a more ‘premium’ brand and £20k ‘nicer’ car and experience for the same money.

Audi are ok in their sweet spot, A4 A6 etc are good premium cars in the £30-40k bracket.

Once you start pushing the upper reaches of a brands core price range you’re going to see some pain on the residuals.

It’s like buying a £200k Mercedes or £50k Vauxhall, you just know it’s going to cost a fortune getting out of it.

[On-Track]

You’ve got it almost right, for a full hybrid set up between the ICE the battery and the electric motors there is a controller that can push recharge into the battery directly via increased revs or slowing (aka regenerative energy) and simultaneously draw power to drive the electric motors. The battery will never be totally exhausted even if you attempt to stay in electric mode only as the control program will switch the engine back into play as soon as it reaches app 80% discharge, therefore you will always have both power sources available and cannot create the situation where you are accelerating without the aid of the electric motors. So you will never get a situation where a hybrid under power will perform as a non hybrid equivalent.
068643D2-19F0-429B-9447-D3FCF882B019.jpeg

Where I disagree with you is I don't think the transmission setup you are showing is that of the Audi Q5Tfsie. You've shown a transmission layout that matches the Toyota Prius and similar vehicles where the engine drives a generator and an electric motor drives the axle. I think the Audi system has both engine and electric motor driving via a traditional transmission. The descriptions from Audi media centre below are dated 2017 so may not accurately describe the current model. I have been searching the Net to try and find a full description of the current model but have not been successful. However, in support of my theory, the specification for the current model includes a seven speed transmission.

https://www.audi-mediacenter.com/en/tec ... ystem-7227

If the ICE is driving the car via a transmission then the option of recharging the battery by increasing revs is not available.

[RichardS]

Thanks for all the comments/suggestions both negative and positive.
Plenty to mull over. On the one hand I am tempted by a change from the Macan, but in the other hand....
Richard