the case for hydrogen cars

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SAC1
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Post by SAC1 »

Hydrogen cars could rewrite depreciation curve, VRA members hear
Tuesday 30th January 2018

Hydrogen cars could rewrite the standard vehicle depreciation curve, members of the Vehicle Remarketing Association heard at their monthly meeting last week.

Held at the Swindon offices of fleet management specialist Arval, the meeting took a look at developments in hydrogen technology, availability of cars and likely sales. The town is the centre of the UK’s largest hydrogen trial for vehicles, business and homes.

Speakers included Clare Jackson of Ecuity Consulting on the Swindon Hydrogen Hub, Paul Marchment of Arval on the company’s hydrogen fleet car trial and John Hunt of Toyota on motor manufacturer progress in developing hydrogen cars.

Jon Hunt, manager, Toyota and Lexus fleet marketing, said: “In the case of a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle, the traditional residual value model no longer applies as unlike combustion engine or battery power trains the fuel cell does not wear out, extending the life and value of a vehicle with relatively low cost cosmetic refurbishment.

“As the vehicle also has all the advantages of quick refuelling and zero emissions, it is the most convenient and future proof technology available.”

Glenn Sturley, chair at the VRA, which represents organisations that process 1.5 million cars for remarketing every year, added that the meeting had shown members that, while some years from market as a viable choice, hydrogen cars offered a whole range of advantages.

“There are two main factors that need to be resolved – vehicle pricing and a fuelling infrastructure. Clearly, these will not be overcome in the short term but it is not unlikely that we could see hydrogen start to make a general push onto the market within a few years.”

Toyota Mirai hydrogen cars were available for VRA members to try and the general impressions reported were favourable.

Glenn Sturley said: “These are cars that offer the drivability of an EV but can be fuelled as quickly as a petrol or diesel car, plus have zero emissions at the point of use and can potentially be powered by localised generation. Their advantages are obvious.”
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happy days
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Post by happy days »

I seem to remember years ago that TG's May did a report from the US on a large Honda running a Hydro power plant. But little or nothing since?
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Post by johnd »

Seems a bit odd to focus the article on the depreciation curve and the conclusions are also a bit questionable.

I'd guess that fuel cells do deteriorate with age and use, possibly on a par with batteries in a BEV. It's true that there's no engine as such to wear, but the rest of car, the electric motors, body, interior, running gear (suspension, brakes etc) are all going to age as normal. Maybe the depreciation curve will be somewhat shallower but hardly chalk and cheese I would have thought, and maybe no different to a typical BEV.
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Post by Deleted User 1874 »

An hydrogen fuel cell now just seems like an unnecessary complication for what is basically an EV. I don't see how they will compete with BEVs in the passenger car market and if depreciation is now their headline advantage then they really are becoming deluded! I'm sure there will be some niche markets for fuel cells, but looks increasingly unlikely in mainstream personal transport now that BEVs are coming of age.
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Post by Dandock »

Solely the ease of refuelling based on supplying the existing refuelling infrastructure versus finding available compatible power points.
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Post by John_M »

There are lots of advantages I can see for hydrogen (quicker re-fuelling, easier to setup infra-structure, better able to handle peaks in electric generation systems, no need for trailing cables, lower weight I believe than batteries) - but one big disadvantage in that keeping hydrogen in a fuel tank is difficult.
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Post by Col Lamb »

The big problem with Hydrogen fuel cells is that to produce Hydrogen requires vast quantities of Electricity which is in itself an inefficient process.

The rapid growth of full EVs and simple fact that all manufacturers are concentraiting on EV/hybrid tech is the nail in the FC coffin.

Btw, the Honda Clarity fuel cell car was a lease only and essentially a customer Beta test of the technology, notice that the Honda Clarity has only just started retail availability. 0-60 in 8.5s, 105 mph top speed and all of 180bhp, I think I will pass.
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SAC1
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Post by SAC1 »

New Hyundai NEXO fuel cell SUV 2018 has now been announced for 2019 launch. See the review:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/hyundai/ne ... newsletter
Steve

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Post by Deleted User 1874 »

But SAC1, are you actually going to put your money where your mouth is and buy one?

Performance looks reasonable, but not exactly amazing.

But the obvious problem is refuelling infrastructure, or total lack of it. They can bang on all they like about 5 min refuelling times, but most people that own EVs quickly come to realise that refuelling time is largely unimportant and more of a legacy way of thinking because of our past experience with ICE ownership. For me, the ability to charge at home is a far greater daily benefit than ultra-fast on-road refuelling and home re-fuelling is something you simply cannot do with Hydrogen. I can rapid charge my battery in about 30 mins on the road every 180 miles or so and the infrastructure to do that already exists. Okay so I may lose 25 mins of my time on a long journey (presuming you don't have to take a 100 mile detour to find your hydrogen station), but I can take a pee, have a coffee or just chill and read a book. It's really no big deal and actually quite good for my health to take a break from driving every 2 or 3 hours. The plus side is that on a daily basis I never have to refuel as every morning I wake up with a fresh 200 mile range.

Sorry, just don't see hydrogen catching on (in the personal transport sector at least). Maybe I'd consider it if every second or even third petrol station I passed had a hydrogen pump, but I don't see that happening any time soon. As it stands today in the UK you would have to be barking mad to buy one, no?
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Post by Col M »

Given that I have to use a small communal car park and have no charge at home possibility a quick (alternative) refuel is necessary to make a vehicle practical
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