Looking to buy a 911

[Hitman999]

Also if buying privately, the seller can transfer the remainder of the Porsche Approved warranty (and Porsche Assitance) to the buyer, it stays with the car (if there is a warranty in the first place of course).

Here is link to the Porsche Approved Warranty flyer: https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/re ... 8032dd5fd6

And a link to the Porsche approved used microsite: https://www.porsche.com/uk/approvedused ... eapproved/

Thanks for the links

[Red5]

Those two cars both look really great!
More generally regarding the choices......

991.1 has the classic 911 sound, which is amazing!
The steering was widely criticised though, as Porsche’s 1st stab at an electric system.
That, combined with 4wd makes this possibly the least enjoyable 911 to pilot

The 4 will understeer more after apex, which is annoying, as that’s where you want the performance on the road!
Once you can see the road is clear, you want to open the taps, as we tend to be ‘slow in, fast out’ on road.
That’s where I liked the 4 least.

991.2 has the turbos, so feels way faster and does still sound good. Better than 95% of other cars still.
The steering is much improved and the turbos shove you up the road really well.
The cars have electronically managed boost, so do not just dump torque at low revs. You still need to rev them to get the best results. No boost surges or any other common turbo maladies seem to manifest themselves.

Generally a 2 will be nicer than a 4 for enthusiastic driving. Traction is a 911 strong point too, so even with 3/4 worn Pirelli PZN0, full throttle is fine in low gears, even before fully straightened with warm tyres.

The 2 has nicer uncorrupted steering generally.
The car tend to naturally adopt a neutral attitude past the apex, just waiting for power, without the 4 understeer tendency.

With the 4, you need to neutralise the attitude yourself, pre apex, which is more commitment.
Usually on a road, you can’t see if it’s clear at this point. I’ve discussed all this at length with some Silverstone PEC drivers, who generally don’t like the 4.
On track you can bully it, but it forces a particular technique, which is less fun. So many more options for fun on road, or track in a 2

I’d personally never buy a second hand car with ceramics. They are just too easy to damage.
You can’t ever risk driving onto a verge or area where there might be grit/gravel etc. Turning around and gravel car parks are hugely risky.

Especially so if you have warm tyres. When you apply lock and turn slowly, the fronts pick up gravel and throw / lob them backwards in an arc. They can land in the rear wheel area.
If you are unlucky, one spec of gravel can come to a rest on the rear callipers, which are like a catchers mitt.
If this happened, the disc will be scrap, within one wheel rotation.

We had this happen to us, but with steels. Turned in a junction and crossed a slightly less swept area of tarmac.
SKREEEEEECCHHHHHHHHEEEE Sound came from the rear. I knew what had happened, so reversed 6ft and all was well.
Had it been a ceramic disc, we’s have needed a trailer to the nearest OPC and a wallet-ectomy, to the tune of two new discs.

I know people that live in constant fear of this, who’s driving enjoyment is ruined.
Porsche take longer to check the ceramic brakes than they do the whole rest of the car, when they take a trade in.
Some will own there ceramic equipped cars and never have an issue, but it is a bit of a Russian Roulette.

Keep posting links as you find them. I guess you need to be ready to call and throw down a deposit!

[Semerka]

I made a mistake in my initial reply, it is the Sports Seats PLUS that have a wider shoulder area, not the standard Sports Seats.

[Nuclear Nick]

Those two cars both look really great!
More generally regarding the choices......

991.1 has the classic 911 sound, which is amazing!
The steering was widely criticised though, as Porsche’s 1st stab at an electric system.
That, combined with 4wd makes this possibly the least enjoyable 911 to pilot

The 4 will understeer more after apex, which is annoying, as that’s where you want the performance on the road!
Once you can see the road is clear, you want to open the taps, as we tend to be ‘slow in, fast out’ on road.
That’s where I liked the 4 least.

991.2 has the turbos, so feels way faster and does still sound good. Better than 95% of other cars still.
The steering is much improved and the turbos shove you up the road really well.
The cars have electronically managed boost, so do not just dump torque at low revs. You still need to rev them to get the best results. No boost surges or any other common turbo maladies seem to manifest themselves.

Generally a 2 will be nicer than a 4 for enthusiastic driving. Traction is a 911 strong point too, so even with 3/4 worn Pirelli PZN0, full throttle is fine in low gears, even before fully straightened with warm tyres.

The 2 has nicer uncorrupted steering generally.
The car tend to naturally adopt a neutral attitude past the apex, just waiting for power, without the 4 understeer tendency.

With the 4, you need to neutralise the attitude yourself, pre apex, which is more commitment.
Usually on a road, you can’t see if it’s clear at this point. I’ve discussed all this at length with some Silverstone PEC drivers, who generally don’t like the 4.
On track you can bully it, but it forces a particular technique, which is less fun. So many more options for fun on road, or track in a 2

I’d personally never buy a second hand car with ceramics. They are just too easy to damage.
You can’t ever risk driving onto a verge or area where there might be grit/gravel etc. Turning around and gravel car parks are hugely risky.

Especially so if you have warm tyres. When you apply lock and turn slowly, the fronts pick up gravel and throw / lob them backwards in an arc. They can land in the rear wheel area.
If you are unlucky, one spec of gravel can come to a rest on the rear callipers, which are like a catchers mitt.
If this happened, the disc will be scrap, within one wheel rotation.

We had this happen to us, but with steels. Turned in a junction and crossed a slightly less swept area of tarmac.
SKREEEEEECCHHHHHHHHEEEE Sound came from the rear. I knew what had happened, so reversed 6ft and all was well.
Had it been a ceramic disc, we’s have needed a trailer to the nearest OPC and a wallet-ectomy, to the tune of two new discs.

I know people that live in constant fear of this, who’s driving enjoyment is ruined.
Porsche take longer to check the ceramic brakes than they do the whole rest of the car, when they take a trade in.
Some will own there ceramic equipped cars and never have an issue, but it is a bit of a Russian Roulette.

Keep posting links as you find them. I guess you need to be ready to call and throw down a deposit!

Great post Red5! I’ve also seen huge grooves worn around the inside of rims caused by stones getting caught between the calliper and the rim on ceramic equipped cars.

[Wing Commander]

+1. That’s the best post I’ve read in ages, Red5, both on here and on the Rennlist 991 forum. I’m a big Porsche fan, but your technical knowledge is impressive!

Agree with Nick on the badly damaged wheels on cars with PCCBs, especially since front discs are now 410mm!

[Hitman999]

Those two cars both look really great!
More generally regarding the choices......

991.1 has the classic 911 sound, which is amazing!
The steering was widely criticised though, as Porsche’s 1st stab at an electric system.
That, combined with 4wd makes this possibly the least enjoyable 911 to pilot

The 4 will understeer more after apex, which is annoying, as that’s where you want the performance on the road!
Once you can see the road is clear, you want to open the taps, as we tend to be ‘slow in, fast out’ on road.
That’s where I liked the 4 least.

991.2 has the turbos, so feels way faster and does still sound good. Better than 95% of other cars still.
The steering is much improved and the turbos shove you up the road really well.
The cars have electronically managed boost, so do not just dump torque at low revs. You still need to rev them to get the best results. No boost surges or any other common turbo maladies seem to manifest themselves.

Generally a 2 will be nicer than a 4 for enthusiastic driving. Traction is a 911 strong point too, so even with 3/4 worn Pirelli PZN0, full throttle is fine in low gears, even before fully straightened with warm tyres.

The 2 has nicer uncorrupted steering generally.
The car tend to naturally adopt a neutral attitude past the apex, just waiting for power, without the 4 understeer tendency.

With the 4, you need to neutralise the attitude yourself, pre apex, which is more commitment.
Usually on a road, you can’t see if it’s clear at this point. I’ve discussed all this at length with some Silverstone PEC drivers, who generally don’t like the 4.
On track you can bully it, but it forces a particular technique, which is less fun. So many more options for fun on road, or track in a 2

I’d personally never buy a second hand car with ceramics. They are just too easy to damage.
You can’t ever risk driving onto a verge or area where there might be grit/gravel etc. Turning around and gravel car parks are hugely risky.

Especially so if you have warm tyres. When you apply lock and turn slowly, the fronts pick up gravel and throw / lob them backwards in an arc. They can land in the rear wheel area.
If you are unlucky, one spec of gravel can come to a rest on the rear callipers, which are like a catchers mitt.
If this happened, the disc will be scrap, within one wheel rotation.

We had this happen to us, but with steels. Turned in a junction and crossed a slightly less swept area of tarmac.
SKREEEEEECCHHHHHHHHEEEE Sound came from the rear. I knew what had happened, so reversed 6ft and all was well.
Had it been a ceramic disc, we’s have needed a trailer to the nearest OPC and a wallet-ectomy, to the tune of two new discs.

I know people that live in constant fear of this, who’s driving enjoyment is ruined.
Porsche take longer to check the ceramic brakes than they do the whole rest of the car, when they take a trade in.
Some will own there ceramic equipped cars and never have an issue, but it is a bit of a Russian Roulette.

Keep posting links as you find them. I guess you need to be ready to call and throw down a deposit!

Thank you Red5 ... very informative .

Will post links as I find them but I need to be quicker as the good low mileage examples are selling the same day!

[Red5]

Those two cars both look really great!
More generally regarding the choices......

991.1 has the classic 911 sound, which is amazing!
The steering was widely criticised though, as Porsche’s 1st stab at an electric system.
That, combined with 4wd makes this possibly the least enjoyable 911 to pilot

The 4 will understeer more after apex, which is annoying, as that’s where you want the performance on the road!
Once you can see the road is clear, you want to open the taps, as we tend to be ‘slow in, fast out’ on road.
That’s where I liked the 4 least.

991.2 has the turbos, so feels way faster and does still sound good. Better than 95% of other cars still.
The steering is much improved and the turbos shove you up the road really well.
The cars have electronically managed boost, so do not just dump torque at low revs. You still need to rev them to get the best results. No boost surges or any other common turbo maladies seem to manifest themselves.

Generally a 2 will be nicer than a 4 for enthusiastic driving. Traction is a 911 strong point too, so even with 3/4 worn Pirelli PZN0, full throttle is fine in low gears, even before fully straightened with warm tyres.

The 2 has nicer uncorrupted steering generally.
The car tend to naturally adopt a neutral attitude past the apex, just waiting for power, without the 4 understeer tendency.

With the 4, you need to neutralise the attitude yourself, pre apex, which is more commitment.
Usually on a road, you can’t see if it’s clear at this point. I’ve discussed all this at length with some Silverstone PEC drivers, who generally don’t like the 4.
On track you can bully it, but it forces a particular technique, which is less fun. So many more options for fun on road, or track in a 2

I’d personally never buy a second hand car with ceramics. They are just too easy to damage.
You can’t ever risk driving onto a verge or area where there might be grit/gravel etc. Turning around and gravel car parks are hugely risky.

Especially so if you have warm tyres. When you apply lock and turn slowly, the fronts pick up gravel and throw / lob them backwards in an arc. They can land in the rear wheel area.
If you are unlucky, one spec of gravel can come to a rest on the rear callipers, which are like a catchers mitt.
If this happened, the disc will be scrap, within one wheel rotation.

We had this happen to us, but with steels. Turned in a junction and crossed a slightly less swept area of tarmac.
SKREEEEEECCHHHHHHHHEEEE Sound came from the rear. I knew what had happened, so reversed 6ft and all was well.
Had it been a ceramic disc, we’s have needed a trailer to the nearest OPC and a wallet-ectomy, to the tune of two new discs.

I know people that live in constant fear of this, who’s driving enjoyment is ruined.
Porsche take longer to check the ceramic brakes than they do the whole rest of the car, when they take a trade in.
Some will own there ceramic equipped cars and never have an issue, but it is a bit of a Russian Roulette.

Keep posting links as you find them. I guess you need to be ready to call and throw down a deposit!

Great post Red5! I’ve also seen huge grooves worn around the inside of rims caused by stones getting caught between the calliper and the rim on ceramic equipped cars.

Thank you

I’ve heard of that calliper / gravel / wheel issue, but never sen it. It was a racing car problem, after a visit to the kitty litter!

I really don’t think an OEM brake / wheel option should be in danger of creating that issue! At least it’s not a wheel ending occurrence, as aluminium is far softer and more malleable.
What a horrific row that must make!

Still, I’d not want to be on an Autobahn, with a wheel that had suffered the issue.

[Red5]

+1. That’s the best post I’ve read in ages, Red5, both on here and on the Rennlist 991 forum. I’m a big Porsche fan, but your technical knowledge is impressive!

Agree with Nick on the badly damaged wheels on cars with PCCBs, especially since front discs are now 410mm!

Cheers WingCo

I do like the idea of the PCCB for the public road handling advantages, but I really do think they are too risky for me.
The repeatable stopping from high speed on track is also impressive, but the steels are also amazing with some more suitable pads and fluid.
Some track enthusiasts actually remove the PCCB for track use, to avoid the likely MASSIVE bill, should they have an off, or just crack them.
I just don’t think that technology is fully evolved yet.

[Red5]

Those two cars both look really great!
More generally regarding the choices......

991.1 has the classic 911 sound, which is amazing!
The steering was widely criticised though, as Porsche’s 1st stab at an electric system.
That, combined with 4wd makes this possibly the least enjoyable 911 to pilot

The 4 will understeer more after apex, which is annoying, as that’s where you want the performance on the road!
Once you can see the road is clear, you want to open the taps, as we tend to be ‘slow in, fast out’ on road.
That’s where I liked the 4 least.

991.2 has the turbos, so feels way faster and does still sound good. Better than 95% of other cars still.
The steering is much improved and the turbos shove you up the road really well.
The cars have electronically managed boost, so do not just dump torque at low revs. You still need to rev them to get the best results. No boost surges or any other common turbo maladies seem to manifest themselves.

Generally a 2 will be nicer than a 4 for enthusiastic driving. Traction is a 911 strong point too, so even with 3/4 worn Pirelli PZN0, full throttle is fine in low gears, even before fully straightened with warm tyres.

The 2 has nicer uncorrupted steering generally.
The car tend to naturally adopt a neutral attitude past the apex, just waiting for power, without the 4 understeer tendency.

With the 4, you need to neutralise the attitude yourself, pre apex, which is more commitment.
Usually on a road, you can’t see if it’s clear at this point. I’ve discussed all this at length with some Silverstone PEC drivers, who generally don’t like the 4.
On track you can bully it, but it forces a particular technique, which is less fun. So many more options for fun on road, or track in a 2

I’d personally never buy a second hand car with ceramics. They are just too easy to damage.
You can’t ever risk driving onto a verge or area where there might be grit/gravel etc. Turning around and gravel car parks are hugely risky.

Especially so if you have warm tyres. When you apply lock and turn slowly, the fronts pick up gravel and throw / lob them backwards in an arc. They can land in the rear wheel area.
If you are unlucky, one spec of gravel can come to a rest on the rear callipers, which are like a catchers mitt.
If this happened, the disc will be scrap, within one wheel rotation.

We had this happen to us, but with steels. Turned in a junction and crossed a slightly less swept area of tarmac.
SKREEEEEECCHHHHHHHHEEEE Sound came from the rear. I knew what had happened, so reversed 6ft and all was well.
Had it been a ceramic disc, we’s have needed a trailer to the nearest OPC and a wallet-ectomy, to the tune of two new discs.

I know people that live in constant fear of this, who’s driving enjoyment is ruined.
Porsche take longer to check the ceramic brakes than they do the whole rest of the car, when they take a trade in.
Some will own there ceramic equipped cars and never have an issue, but it is a bit of a Russian Roulette.

Keep posting links as you find them. I guess you need to be ready to call and throw down a deposit!

Thank you Red5 ... very informative .

Will post links as I find them but I need to be quicker as the good low mileage examples are selling the same day!

You’re welcome
Semerka also noted and told me, that cars with rear steering can’t accept 19” winter wheel sets.
She specifically wanted to run a slightly smaller wheel with a higher profile tyre in winter, so this would have been an issue.

I’m not actually 100% sure why. It might be an electronic calibration thing?

Possibly not a deal breaker on the right car, but one more thing to be aware of I guess.

More internet shopping today I bet

[Tracky]

All my guys take the ceramics off their track cars !

Never experienced any issues on steels and cheaper to replace.

I just don’t get them to be honest.

Can’t see you’ll notice and real tangible benefit on the road