Tesla model X

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Mistertoad
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Re: Tesla model X

Post by Mistertoad » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:34 am

goron59 wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:44 am
Wing Commander wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:06 am
:lol: 😬 Even the pre-facelift cars bought by all the Macaneers on here...? ;)
I consider the MY17 to be the Macan's first facelift, so yes.
And even that was riddled with PCM issues that are only now starting to be resolved.

I struggle to think of a car made in the last 10-15 years that wasn't badly flawed in its first incarnation. Sometimes the second version is worse, mind you :)
Agreed, I retrieved my £1000 deposit on an I-Pace and bought the last version of the current well sorted Continental GT :D
Last edited by Mistertoad on Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
2016 Bentley Continental GT V8 S


Peteski
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Re: Tesla model X

Post by Peteski » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:34 am

Dandock wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:59 pm
I think that once the mainstream pros get properly involved we'll see just how well it can be done. Tesla are techies that don't really understand cars - and especially non-US cars - and techies can be hired. But it's very difficult to buy the sort of understanding and experience possessed by the real big-hitters.
All I know right now is that the "mainstream pros" as you put it are actually nowhere in sight when it comes to providing a decent large EV option. I can't imagine fitting all the kids and gear in a BMW i3 for a weekend mountain biking trip and the range is still very restricted without the comedy "range extender" fitted. Tesla clearly had some serious quality issues (at least serious for a £100K car) early on with the Model X, but the general consensus is that they are now mostly sorted. But I'll keep my eyes fully open when I test drive one shortly.


goron59
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Re: Tesla model X

Post by goron59 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:41 am

Tesla will only have truly arrived, I think, when the Model 3 is available within a month of ordering anywhere in the world, for a price that won't make the average new car buyer's eyes water.

I think the model S and X are not long for this world. They state they are not a premium car maker (obvious if you sit in one) and don't want to be. They must get rid of the silly prices in that case, and I suspect, the S and X lines.

Maybe, if Tesla exists in 5 years, it'll be a model 3X and a model 4.

Musk only goes in to businesses with massive government handouts, and of course, those are evaporating now for EVs, so it really is a good question on whether Tesla will still exist as a carmaker.


Peteski
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Re: Tesla model X

Post by Peteski » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:43 am

goron59 wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:52 pm
If you've got the money to buy one and have somewhere to charge it reliably and safely, you never want to do more than 250 miles in one trip, and have no sense of shame, it's a no brainer. It's a lot of ifs though :)
LOL, I can tick most of those boxes. The sense of shame is the one niggling a little, but no more so than contemplating a Q7/Cayenne/RR etc. It's really just the silly (but actually quite practical) spaceship doors that make it such a drama queen. Otherwise it's all pretty generic and understated on the road. Certainly much more subtle than any blinged up RR, Audi or Porsche Chelsea tractor. Still, I'll report back after a test drive. If it's rubbish I'll be ordering that Volvo T8 shortly.


Peteski
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Re: Tesla model X

Post by Peteski » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:54 am

goron59 wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:41 am
Tesla will only have truly arrived, I think, when the Model 3 is available within a month of ordering anywhere in the world, for a price that won't make the average new car buyer's eyes water.

I think the model S and X are not long for this world. They state they are not a premium car maker (obvious if you sit in one) and don't want to be. They must get rid of the silly prices in that case, and I suspect, the S and X lines.

Maybe, if Tesla exists in 5 years, it'll be a model 3X and a model 4.

Musk only goes in to businesses with massive government handouts, and of course, those are evaporating now for EVs, so it really is a good question on whether Tesla will still exist as a carmaker.
It could go either way. Tesla could either get swamped as EVs become mainstream in the next decade or it could rapidly become one of the major players on a whole new playing field. Either way I'm sure they will be selling plenty of batteries over the next decade!


Col Lamb
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Re: Tesla model X

Post by Col Lamb » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:48 pm

Peteski wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:54 am
goron59 wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:41 am
Tesla will only have truly arrived, I think, when the Model 3 is available within a month of ordering anywhere in the world, for a price that won't make the average new car buyer's eyes water.

I think the model S and X are not long for this world. They state they are not a premium car maker (obvious if you sit in one) and don't want to be. They must get rid of the silly prices in that case, and I suspect, the S and X lines.

Maybe, if Tesla exists in 5 years, it'll be a model 3X and a model 4.

Musk only goes in to businesses with massive government handouts, and of course, those are evaporating now for EVs, so it really is a good question on whether Tesla will still exist as a carmaker.
It could go either way. Tesla could either get swamped as EVs become mainstream in the next decade or it could rapidly become one of the major players on a whole new playing field. Either way I'm sure they will be selling plenty of batteries over the next decade!
I would not be sure about Tesla selling large quantities of batteries despite the so called mega production facility.

The batteries they are using are based on a Panasonic cell.

You can be sure the big battery companies Samsung, Panasonic, Yuasa, Buffett, Energizer etc are frantically developing their own products for the EV market.
Col
Macan Turbo, Met Blk, Spyders, Air, ACC, Pano, Garnet, SurCam, 14w, LEDs, PS+, Int Light Pack, heated seats and steering, PS+, SC, plus a few other goodies.
Prior Macan SD similar spec to Turbo


Peteski
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Re: Tesla model X

Post by Peteski » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:22 pm

This will be an interesting thread to dredge up in 5 years time. Truth is nobody knows how it will all pan out, so it's all just speculation. But right now today if I really want a large family practical EV, the choice is a Tesla Model X or nothing. I may well choose nothing, but got a test drive booked for tomorrow to see what all the fuss is about. I don't really have any expectations and I'm very wary of Tesla's lack of pedigree in the automotive world, but then again the traditional luxury automotive manufacturers are lagging well behind on full EV drivetrains - like 5 years behind the curve Tesla have now set. Most companies seem to talk about 2020 as a release date for their proper EVs, which will be a full 8 years after the Tesla Model S. Until then all we get are relatively small cars like the Nissan Leaf, BMW i3, eGolf etc with quite limited range and cobbled up hybrid compromises in larger vehicles. Meanwhile Tesla seem to be growing from strength to strength with ever increasing range and power and what appears to be a pretty responsive factory. Obviously the Model 3 will be the make or break of Tesla and I expect they well sell as many as they can possibly shove off the production line. Good luck to them, it's about time the US started getting its automotive act together. It's not like they don't have the tech to compete with the Europeans, it's just the traditional US attitude to cars and cheap fuel that's held them back for decades.


Peteski
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Re: Tesla model X

Post by Peteski » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:10 pm

I had a quick test drive this morning. First impressions were very positive. I concentrated totally on the drive rather than fit and finish, quality of materials etc, but I have to say I didn't like the trim choice on this particular test car i.e. cream leather with some sort of old fashioned wood trim, but the carbon trim option with black seats looks good and that's what I'd be choosing. The seats themselves are very comfortable and supportive, no issues there. The driving position is very good too with a decent left foot rest and acres of space for a 6ft+ driver. The steering wheel is nice and chunky and a good size, pedal positions ideal, loads of headroom too. Contrary to what others have said, it does feel pretty upmarket inside in a minimalist sort of way. It's never going to appeal to those looking for old school "Bentley" touches, but fine for those who prefer a more futuristic style anyway.

So we glided silently out of the multi-story carpark, which provided no challenges for such a large car, and out on to the road. The first thing I noticed was the instant torque on tap with no gearbox in the way. In the P100D the performance is more or less infinite. That's the best way to describe it. It just accelerates as fast as you command in every circumstance with plenty of reserve. It is frankly ridiculously quick by any standards. But I'm realistically looking at the more mundane 75D, with a mere 4.9 sec 0-60 in latest spec (down from the previous 6.0 sec and now virtually identical to the 100D, just with less range). Luckily the 75D can be simulated in the P100D test car by limiting the performance to emulate a 75D, so after a few blasts in full ludicrous mode just for the hell of it, we switched into the more conservative 75D mode for the rest of the drive. The acceleration is obviously less brutal, but still more than adequate for a car like this, especially as the throttle response is instant every time. In short it's a very quick car in any battery spec and the kids would only sick up if you thrashed it anyway.

On to handling, it's actually a lot more sporty than you would expect. The ride is pretty firm (even on the relatively small 20" wheels) and there is virtually no body roll. The only time it feels heavy is under hard braking which caught me out at first. For the type of vehicle it is I can't help feeling it may be a bit too sporty in chassis setup. I didn't get to test it on chopped up roads, but I'm a little concerned about its ability to soak up potholes. That's something I need to test. But on decent roads it's fine. I have to say the steering feel is excellent and well weighted. The throttle and brakes are also nicely weighted and progressive, making it a very easy car to drive smoothly. The lack of any gear changes really helps a lot I think. You simply feed in the torque on demand and waft around effortlessly.

Negatives - wind and tyre noise was higher than I expected at 80 ish (maybe highlighted by lack of engine noise), but all the same it detracts slightly from the overall serenity. I didn't have time to inspect the fit and finish closely, but there was nothing obviously wrong with it. As I said, the trim choice was not to my taste, but I find some of the other alternatives fine.

Cost is high of course, although not as high as I expected. The 75D spec I'm looking at comes out at £88K fully loaded with premium interior and all the electronic toys, which is not too bad and the 1.5% APR PCP deal looks fairly attractive with reasonable guaranteed residuals. Low running costs should help too, so not the financial disaster I was fearing.

So tomorrow I'm getting in the Volvo XC90 T8, which will be a good benchmark for comparison. But I have to say the Model X is very tempting.


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Wing Commander
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Re: Tesla model X

Post by Wing Commander » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:31 pm

Thanks for the review, Peteski.

Very interesting, and more positive than many will have expected!

I look forward to your XC90 T8 review.

And would the new Cayenne be on your shortlist too...? :geek:
Sold: 2016 Rhodium Silver Macan 2.0
Sold: 2013 Platinum Silver 911 (991.1) C2
Mine: 2017 Carmine Red Panamera 4 http://www.porsche-code.com/PJPWMYE2


Peteski
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Re: Tesla model X

Post by Peteski » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:22 pm

Wing Commander wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:31 pm
Thanks for the review, Peteski.

Very interesting, and more positive than many will have expected!

I look forward to your XC90 T8 review.

And would the new Cayenne be on your shortlist too...? :geek:
I think Tesla have genuinely improved Model X build quality over the last year (from reading various sources) and some of the interior trim options look much better than others. The carbon inlays for example are really quite nicely done and the upgrade cost is a very reasonable £250, although you do have to specify the premium interior at just over £3K. Others look more dubious, such as the wood trim options and the standard gloss black plastic trim looks a bit cheap as others have mentioned. I'll take a much closer look at the build quality next time I visit the dealer, as I was in a bit of a hurry today. But I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as early examples of Model X and S, which is where I think the poor reputation originally came from. Same with reliability, most of the early issues with doors (mainly fronts surprisingly) and various software glitches seem to have been ironed out on later builds. I'm still wary, but the test drive was certainly a very positive experience.

Unfortunately I don't think the Cayenne is going to be an option for us this time around unless the hybrid version is released very soon. Any idea on timescales for that? I know the petrol versions are due around April onward, which would work for us, but don't want to wait much longer for the hybrid. My wife in particular is set on an EV or at least a hybrid for our next family wagon. A big petrol/diesel burner is really out of the question. Right now it's a toss up between the Tesla, XC90 and XC60 T8.


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