Hydrogen ‘ticks all the boxes’ for sustainable mobility

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SAC1
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Post by SAC1 »

Michelin: Hydrogen ‘ticks all the boxes’ for sustainable mobility
Wednesday 8th November 201

A major of the COP 23 climate change conference now being held in Germany is to emphasise the importance of reducing greenhouse gas emissions. Transport, which is responsible for 23 per cent of worldwide CO2 emissions, is at the forefront of concerns. Electromobility is generously served up as an elixir on occasions such as this, however battery driven electric cars remain a niche market. An alternate form of electric propulsion, one that many in the UK first saw when James May tested the Honda FCX Clarity on Top Gear back in 2008, may hold the key to the door of high volume uptake. This is hydrogen fuel cell, a technology that tyre maker Michelin actively supports.

Commenting that hydrogen “ticks all the boxes in terms of Michelin’s vision of sustainable mobility,” the tyre maker sees the technology as a means of overcoming the limitations currently associated with electromobility. These well-known shortcomings are battery range and recharging time, constraints that effectively restrict battery electric vehicles to urban use and short commutes. Hydrogen technology removes these limitations; at up to around 375 miles, a hydrogen electric vehicle’s range is comparable to that of a petrol vehicle, and filling up with hydrogen at a dedicated service station takes only three to five minutes. A further advantage is that filling up a hydrogen electric vehicle doesn’t place a burden upon the local electricity grid.

Hydrogen fuel cells operate by bringing hydrogen in contact with oxygen to produce electricity and water. Neither CO2 nor other pollutants are emitted whilst a fuel cell is running, however Michelin comments that the H2 (dihydrogen) needed for operation is still typically produced using a method that generates greenhouse gases. More than 90 per cent of hydrogen is produced from hydrocarbons using the steam reforming method. Although this is an inexpensive process, Michelin notes that hydrogen can also be produced in an entirely carbon-free way by means of electrolysis of water, using renewable energies such as solar or wind power.

Three countries – Japan, Korea and China – currently lead the world in terms of hydrogen. Several manufacturers from these countries already have commercial models on the market, and all three countries have implemented a favourable tax regime or highly incentivised subsidy programmes for hydrogen. Europe currently lags behind Asia, however activities here are accelerating, and more and more companies are now committing to this technology and are ready to make investments – Michelin is just one of these.

Research and development teams at Michelin have worked with hydrogen as an energy source for more than 15 years. The company claims it has “mastered the technology of the hydrogen fuel cell.” As a shareholder since 2014 and main shareholder as of last year, Michelin works with Symbio FCell, creator of the first hydrogen range extender. This technology can be used to convert any electric vehicle into an electric/hydrogen hybrid, encouraging rapid adoption of this technology without needing to wait for the launch of new, dedicated models. Michelin’s IMECA subsidiary is working with Symbio FCell on the industrialisation of this technology. These efforts were helped in 2016 when green mobility company Engie took a minority share in Symbio, bringing with it its expertise in the carbon-free production of hydrogen and in distribution infrastructures.

Beyond its own research and that of Symbio, Michelin demonstrates its commitment to hydrogen fuel cell technology through its membership of the Hydrogen Europe FCHJU, which groups at European level all industries, research and national associations. Michelin additionally works with several French associations. It has also given its full support to the ‘Zero Emission Valley’ project in the Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes region of France. The region seeks to become a “spearhead” of hydrogen mobility in Europe and aims, through the project, to boost awareness and use of hydrogen mobility. The plan is to deploy 20 hydrogen stations and a fleet of 1,000 vehicles in Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes between now and 2020.

Last but not least, Michelin is a partner of Swiss firm Green GT, which produces the world’s only electric hydrogen racing vehicle. By putting the hydrogen fuel cell up against the extreme conditions encountered in endurance races, Michelin anticipates it will be in a position to offer future customers every guarantee of safety and performance.
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ScotMac
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Post by ScotMac »

Hydrogen certainly appears to be very good.
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Post by Deleted User 1874 »

From the recent MIT study on lifecycle emissions of various car types:-

"For the one FCV model examined (Toyota Mirai), emissions reductions are only achieved when hydrogen is produced using SMR. When hydrogen from electrolysis is used, the Toyota Mirai’s emissions are almost at the same level as some of the highest-emitting ICEVs on the market."

So the benefit or not depends entirely on how the Hydrogen is produced. I'm all for it if it works and I can buy a suitable car in future. I can also imagine a future with BEVs, PHEVs and FCVs all being sold alongside as they all have their specific pros and cons. There is no requirement for the future to be restricted to a single power source. But you would have to say that pure ICEs (both diesel and petrol variants) are going to become extinct in the next couple of decades if we are to meet environmental targets beyond 2030.
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Post by LLL »

Nah, hydrogen is just a farce going on for a few years now driven by those who started their programs 10 years ago when BEV was not a viable alternative. Now Tesla happen to proved the opposite and most automakers have started to realize that as well. Hydrogen will disappear in due course for normal cars. Maybe there will be a case for heavy transport and busses, but doubt that as well.

Just read this for example to grasp on why it's not a good solution:
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/engine ... re-stupid/

"Take the temperature" and look into how little spend the car manufacturers have in hydrogen compared to BEV. Those who still have some budget are those who started long time ago and will continue to spend some dumb money a few more years before the programs are closed down.

There are several hydrogen companies where people from the oil industry have invested heavily. Wonder why they will push for Hydrogen a few more years before they realize how dumb of an idea it was. They of course want people to continue to "go to the fill up station and fill up". Thing with BEV is that 90% of "filling" is done overnight far away from the "petrol station". And this is of course no good business for their existing infrastructure with diesel/petrol stations. They see their business decrease and hence do everything to give BEV bad press. It will work a few years during the transition, but not in the long run.
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Post by Deleted User 1874 »

Most of the mainstream manufacturers are now clearly investing in EVs and hybrids. I couldn't imagine putting money into Hydrogen right now. Michelin must be having some serious doubts at this point too I would have thought.
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Post by LLL »

Think I'll untick a few of those boxes...

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Post by Paul »

The image on the left looks fine if you’re in California but this........


F20D64F9-91CD-4E20-B48D-8B264A294189.jpeg




....is more the norm in the UK😉
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Post by Col Lamb »

We have 35M cars in the UK.

So if the life expectancy of a car is say 10 years (some sources say 8 others up to 15 years), then 3.5 million cars will be scrapped each year.

That is a lot of recycling and a lot of steel, aluminium, plastics and 12v batteries to reuse.

Now when all cars are EV lets say that there will still be 3.5 million cars scrapped each year, that again is a lot of materials but a huge amount of batteries, there probably will be a lot more cars but for the sake of comparison lets stick with the figure.

Does anyone know how a Tesla battery pack will be recycled?

Ps
3.5M Tesla battery packs laid end to end would be over 9500 km in length, that a big recycling plant.
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Post by ScotMac »

Paul wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:20 pm The image on the left looks fine if you’re in California but this........



F20D64F9-91CD-4E20-B48D-8B264A294189.jpeg




....is more the norm in the UK😉
What was the strange bright yellow thing in the sky :? :? :?

Not something I've seen here for some time :D
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Post by wilko »

BIggest problem with hydrogen is containing it.
To get any sort of energy storage into a vehicle sized package, it needs to be stored at very high pressures.
Unfortunately as it’s the smallest molecule, it will leak out of a tank at high pressures at around 5% per day.
So park it at the airport for 2 weeks with a full tank, and when you get back there’s none left.
Not practical.
There’s only one future for personal transport, and it’s petrol/diesel mixed with hybrid drive trains.
If any of you really care about the pollution aspects of personal transport, walk more, and drive tiny, small engined, lightweight cars, not 2 tonne luxury suv’s, or more importantly dont look at Tesla’s, but Renault Zoe’s.
petrol and diesel are lightweight energy dense methods of storing energy in personal transport. If anyone really was paying any more than lip service to the issues, they’d tax personal transport either on fuel tax, or an energy tax that makes people think twice about living long distances from their workplace, or driving when they could easily walk.
Periods of higher fuel prices in the uk have significantly reduced consumption, and hence pollution.
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