Driverless cars

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Deleted User 1874

Post by Deleted User 1874 »

Luke wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:21 pm
I have the "Enhanced Autopilot - aka AP2" in my Tesla and that system is at best a driver aid on motorways and relaxing way to be assisted in traffic jams. It's good at that, but using it anyway outside good circumstances it is a bit jerky and unreliable so I hardly even try in these situations anymore. It get's better and better for each iteration of the software (that Tesla release each second week currently) and being a tech guy like me it's fun to test each new version. But I can imagine for "average Joe" it's just not a reliable system and I completely understand the negative press that Tesla AP get from independent sources with it's current software algorithms. What you get though is a smart Adaptive cruise with steering assistance that is really smart, but it's quite expensive for that.

I have doubts that the hardware in my car will be capable of self driving, will probably require next gen hardware to get it to Level 4/5. Tesla recently updated to AP2.5 with some new hardware/radars, more powerful gpu and increased redundancy, so they have for sure realized that the original AP2.0 was not good enough. They still say it is though. Time will tell how things develop. For me personally it's a fun ride being along, but you clearly need to understand the limitations of the system and have relevant expectations.
I'm looking forward to using the Tesla "Autopilot". I was quite impressed with it on my test drives. I found it much better than the similar system on the Volvo XC90, which ping-ponged its way along the lane and could only steer through very slight bends on the motorway. Tesla AP seems much more capable and I quite liked the active lane change function. Certainly the best cruise control I've ever used!

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Post by LLL »

Peteski wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:49 am
I'm looking forward to using the Tesla "Autopilot". I was quite impressed with it on my test drives. I found it much better than the similar system on the Volvo XC90, which ping-ponged its way along the lane and could only steer through very slight bends on the motorway. Tesla AP seems much more capable and I quite liked the active lane change function. Certainly the best cruise control I've ever used!

Agree! The Autopilot is a delight compared with other systems and much better than everything else I have tested. My point was more that those who literally think it's an "Autopilot" might be in for a surprise. On motorway with auto lane change and relaxing auto steer it is fantastic and make the drive so relaxing.

What i most like about the Tesla approach is the bi-weekly (or there about) update frequency. It's like Christmas eve each time it sends out a push to the phone that new software is available and ready to be installed in the car. At some events there are major improvements and other times there are just minor improvements. No other car manufacturer is even close to this setup. It's clearly like an iPhone on wheels from this perspective. Your device keeps improve throughout time, interface/UI gets better and modernized, etc. Now soon the entire Map-engine will be updated with Vector graphics, which will be a massive improvement for responsiveness compared with the existing bit-map approach that can make the map a bit laggy at times. Every car on the road will get this update and even a Model S from 2013 will feel fresher with new software. Love it!
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Post by Dandock »

Luke wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:37 pm
Peteski wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:49 am
I'm looking forward to using the Tesla "Autopilot". I was quite impressed with it on my test drives. I found it much better than the similar system on the Volvo XC90, which ping-ponged its way along the lane and could only steer through very slight bends on the motorway. Tesla AP seems much more capable and I quite liked the active lane change function. Certainly the best cruise control I've ever used!

Agree! The Autopilot is a delight compared with other systems and much better than everything else I have tested. My point was more that those who literally think it's an "Autopilot" might be in for a surprise. On motorway with auto lane change and relaxing auto steer it is fantastic and make the drive so relaxing.
Tell me, Luke, how do you mentally balance letting Autopilot taking a certain amount of control and allowing you to relax, while at the same time legally still having to be 'in control'? Surely you have to be in driver mode and ready, all of the time, just in case, and so cannot really relax at all? I'm not criticising, just trying to understand a situation - a skill? - that we're all going to have become accustomed to.
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Post by Paul »

Dandock wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:04 pm
Luke wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:37 pm
Peteski wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:49 am
I'm looking forward to using the Tesla "Autopilot". I was quite impressed with it on my test drives. I found it much better than the similar system on the Volvo XC90, which ping-ponged its way along the lane and could only steer through very slight bends on the motorway. Tesla AP seems much more capable and I quite liked the active lane change function. Certainly the best cruise control I've ever used!

Agree! The Autopilot is a delight compared with other systems and much better than everything else I have tested. My point was more that those who literally think it's an "Autopilot" might be in for a surprise. On motorway with auto lane change and relaxing auto steer it is fantastic and make the drive so relaxing.
Tell me, Luke, how do you mentally balance letting Autopilot taking a certain amount of control and allowing you to relax, while at the same time legally still having to be 'in control'? Surely you have to be in driver mode and ready, all of the time, just in case, and so cannot really relax at all? I'm not criticising, just trying to understand a situation - a skill? - that we're all going to have become accustomed to.
It is a major step Mike; on a much, much more basic level, my youngest has just bought a new Golf with the “ simple” ACC. I had the opportunity to drive it up and back to Daventry (M5 / M42 / M6 etc a few weeks back and it took more concentration to “supervise” it for the first hour or so. I was forever thinking “ aha...I would be br.......aking now....but it just has!”
Or, “ aha, I would be acc.......elerating now....but it just has!”
Much more relaxed on the way back but still had my foot hovering over the brake most of the time just in case. A question of confidence I guess!
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Post by Dandock »

Paul wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:27 pm
Dandock wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:04 pm
Luke wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:37 pm


Agree! The Autopilot is a delight compared with other systems and much better than everything else I have tested. My point was more that those who literally think it's an "Autopilot" might be in for a surprise. On motorway with auto lane change and relaxing auto steer it is fantastic and make the drive so relaxing.
Tell me, Luke, how do you mentally balance letting Autopilot taking a certain amount of control and allowing you to relax, while at the same time legally still having to be 'in control'? Surely you have to be in driver mode and ready, all of the time, just in case, and so cannot really relax at all? I'm not criticising, just trying to understand a situation - a skill? - that we're all going to have become accustomed to.
It is a major step Mike; on a much, much more basic level, my youngest has just bought a new Golf with the “ simple” ACC. I had the opportunity to drive it up and back to Daventry (M5 / M42 / M6 etc a few weeks back and it took more concentration to “supervise” it for the first hour or so. I was forever thinking “ aha...I would be br.......aking now....but it just has!”
Or, “ aha, I would be acc.......elerating now....but it just has!”
Much more relaxed on the way back but still had my foot hovering over the brake most of the time just in case. A question of confidence I guess!
Surely if the driver is ultimately responsible for overriding the system in case of emergency - e.g. computer fails to identify a potential crisis - then the driver can never relax.
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Post by Paul »

...hopefully not......☹️ but there will always be a lowest common denominator who will want to blame the car....
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Post by Dandock »

Dandock wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:53 pm
Paul wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:27 pm
Dandock wrote: Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:04 pm

Tell me, Luke, how do you mentally balance letting Autopilot taking a certain amount of control and allowing you to relax, while at the same time legally still having to be 'in control'? Surely you have to be in driver mode and ready, all of the time, just in case, and so cannot really relax at all? I'm not criticising, just trying to understand a situation - a skill? - that we're all going to have become accustomed to.
It is a major step Mike; on a much, much more basic level, my youngest has just bought a new Golf with the “ simple” ACC. I had the opportunity to drive it up and back to Daventry (M5 / M42 / M6 etc a few weeks back and it took more concentration to “supervise” it for the first hour or so. I was forever thinking “ aha...I would be br.......aking now....but it just has!”
Or, “ aha, I would be acc.......elerating now....but it just has!”
Much more relaxed on the way back but still had my foot hovering over the brake most of the time just in case. A question of confidence I guess!
Surely if the driver is ultimately responsible for overriding the system in case of emergency - e.g. computer fails to identify a potential crisis - then the driver can never relax.
Or until the legal world defines the responsibility - which it is beginning debate. See 'Law' section in yesterday's Times.
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Post by Dandock »

VG Petrol S http://www.porsche-code.com/PHIVCQU7           And a GT3 RS... by Lego! Not crash-tested! 😀
Deleted User 1874

Post by Deleted User 1874 »

Hammond is going to look like a complete buffoon over this. The timescale and cost is all fantasy. We can't even do driverless trains on any meaningful scale yet, which is far less of a technical challenge.

To make driverless cars a reality it requires a total fundamental overhaul of our entire road infrastructure, including the removal of human driven cars in many areas. In other words a closed and highly controlled environment with consistent road markings, no potholes, no random pedestrians, cycles and any other irrational humans or animals! Basically much closer to what you have with rail networks or air space.

If we simply toss a load of first generation driverless cars onto our current roads in 2021 it will cause chaos and keep plenty of lawyers in work!
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