ICE to dominate for the next 20+ years?

[N13LXC]

I cant see how (in current capability/capacity) an EV can work for anyone that doesn't live in a city or have access to a charge point at their place of work/location they leave their car?

I do think that you have to look a year or two into the future (given that eg an i-Pace order soon probably won't see delivery for 12 months) and not at the past. There's at least two factors in play: One is that the public charging network is being built out at a significant rate and at a guess will probably double in eg 1-2 years' time.

The other is that more realistic range benchmarks are now being enforced. They may still be eg 10% optimistic vs real-life, especially in winter, but not on the scale of the past.

That said, I can see that BEV is probably not going to be a sensible option in the near future for those having to park on-street at night. But those with a driveway who can charge overnight at home and who are going to enjoy a 240+ mile range for cars like the i-Pace, probably Mission E etc, are going to find only the long journeys to require some extra planning. For many, this trade-off will be well worthwhile.

my point was made to what Petski said about never going to an ICE car after experiencing EV performance (current performance not future). my point is that based on current performance, they're not where they need to be.

Charging stations and home charging helps, but reliance on the availability of a charge point at either end of your journey just now is very risky. also, do you want to stop every 150 miles on a journey, just in case the charge is low/traffic/diversion etc...and wait 30 mins to an hour to get 80% capacity again? seems ludicrous (pun intended) in it's current guise.

Agree, in future it will be better, but not there yet.

[Deleted User 1874]

The new Volvo XC60 hybrid that I borrowed from Volvo UK in November got stuck in electric mode and then couldn't get up a steep hill so got stuck...and that's Volvo...

Problem with hybrids like this is that they are overly complicated with plenty to go wrong in the drivetrain. The Tesla pure EV drivetrain is simple and far more effective. No engine, no gearbox, no clutches. For all the faults reported on Teslas, the drivetrain itself has proven to be very reliable. Haven't heard of many drivetrain reliability issues with Leaf, e-Golf or i3 either. No reason why they should have problems really. There's a lot more to go wrong with an internal combustion engine, gearbox and clutch.

[Deleted User 1874]

my point was made to what Petski said about never going to an ICE car after experiencing EV performance (current performance not future). my point is that based on current performance, they're not where they need to be.

Charging stations and home charging helps, but reliance on the availability of a charge point at either end of your journey just now is very risky. also, do you want to stop every 150 miles on a journey, just in case the charge is low/traffic/diversion etc...and wait 30 mins to an hour to get 80% capacity again? seems ludicrous (pun intended) in it's current guise.

I agree EVs wouldn't work for everyone today, but mainly those who have no access to private off-road parking and/or can't afford a Tesla! Our Model X 75D has a realistic winter range of around 150 miles (with no compromise driving) and more like 200 miles in summer and those are conservative figures with plenty in reserve. The X 100D adds about 50 miles to that range (so 200/250 miles winter/summer) and the lighter Model S adds probably a further 50 miles to the effective range. I believe the S 100D is now good for 300 miles in the real world. Is that really not enough for most people?

My limited experience of longer trips in the Tesla is that we tend to stop every 100 miles or so for about 15 mins to top up charge at a supercharger. It's more efficient that way, rather than draining the battery right down and stopping for maybe 30-40 mins to charge up. I can say it's a nicer and quieter way of travelling than doing a few hundred miles non-stop. If I was intending to do a lot of longer stints, I would have opted for the bigger battery for sure. But I simply don't need it for our usage and we are a typical family of 4 who go on plenty of weekend trips away etc.

For everyday driving, I just charge overnight to about 80% and that gives 100+ miles of local stop-start travel in any conditions. If I need more I just bump up the charge level accordingly or top up during the day while parked. So far I've rarely gone to bed with less than 50% charge in the "tank" and had zero range anxiety.

I know it's a different story today with a Leaf, e-Golf or i3, having to slum it with an unreliable and incoherent public charging network and limited battery range, but I'm sure in the not too distant future that will massively improve. Tesla have shown how it can be done (supercharger network is very effective and reassuring) and I believe the Germans are about to invest in their own large scale charging infrastructure. Destination charging at hotels etc is also beginning to ramp up significantly.

[MikeM]

I thought ICE was the acronym for 'In Car Entertainment'?

I can't keep up!

ICE for 20 years better leave my winter tyres on

[Col Lamb]

You get used to stopping every 150-175 miles, for whatever reason.

As an ex biker who has ridden all over the UK on two wheels it really is not a problem. It gave me time to refill the tank, stretch the legs and take a pit stop all in all 15-20 minutes which in an EV should be more than enough time to top up.

Similar in the cars, I find 120-180 miles more than enough non stop driving, I would suggest to all that if one drives in excess of 200 miles non stop that your driving performance will start to suffer.

How many times in a typical month are you going to drive in excess of 150 miles in one go?

Our own longest journey in the last six months was 120 miles one way to Birmingham, a few hours in the City and 120 miles back home, the time in the City would have been more than enough to recharge the battery.

Are people getting far to hung up on range when in reality you do not need it that often?

[Deleted User 1874]

Similar in the cars, I find 120-180 miles more than enough non stop driving, I would suggest to all that if one drives in excess of 200 miles non stop that your driving performance will start to suffer.

Not to mention your health if you do that sort of non-stop mileage regularly! I have to say I've been guilty in my younger days of doing this kind of thing, but I'm a bit older and wiser today.

I don't find any limitation in having a sub 200 mile range. The real key is access to reliable and convenient charging on the road when you really need it and this is where Tesla are leading the field by a country mile. I've used a few of their Superchargers now and they are awesome. Massive parking bays and no queues. Makes you feel like a VIP next to the usual cramped parking at motorway service stations!

I expect in a few short years, rapid charging will be a non-issue for all EV owners, not just Tesla. Other big manufacturers are stating to make noise about their own charging networks, as are various independents and even traditional ICE fuel retailers. Tesla have given them all a successful blueprint of what on-road charging should be like.

If people are forced to take 15-30 min breaks every 200 miles of driving, that can only be a good thing for road safety and our general health, whether we like it or not!