Hybrid & Tesla

[Col Lamb]

As one of the coming underclass without a drive I love this.

Something I've never really thought about but yes I guess the wider use of EVs is going to add some premium to a house's price if it has a drive/garage/parking space that enables easy charging (and especially if a charger is already installed).

Does the installed charger include a lifetime's supply of disposable gloves to handle the dirty EV cable / plug? Oh no! they're made of plastic so that's not environmentally friendly either!

Have a pair of gardening gloves in the boot, job sorted.

[Dandock]

Why is there the need to charge an EV every day?

As rapid charging stations proliferate more then even those with no home charging capabilities are or will be served.

Preston Porsche will open next Spring and their location is such that dropping off the Macan EV to charge and going for a walk around the dock area, the shops, or the pub or simply to take onboard a freebie coffee is possible.

Cheshire Oaks Porsche is right next to a large out of town Shopping Centre so plenty to do whilst a charge occurs, same with my own OPC in Kendal, its a five minute walk into town.

It usually takes about 3/4 hour from arriving to leaving the Supermarket so if they have charging stations, problem is easily sorted.

A self driving EV car is even easier to charge, it could be programmed to drive off to a central facility, wait its turn to charge and to drive back and park outside your home when fully charged.

OK so a slight change of lifestyle may be required but it is possible.

Fully compatible infrastructure definitely required. Far too many systems and specific payment methods at present.

[Deleted User 1874]

As one of the coming underclass without a drive I love this.

Something I've never really thought about but yes I guess the wider use of EVs is going to add some premium to a house's price if it has a drive/garage/parking space that enables easy charging (and especially if a charger is already installed).

Does the installed charger include a lifetime's supply of disposable gloves to handle the dirty EV cable / plug? Oh no! they're made of plastic so that's not environmentally friendly either!

I see now resorting to raising total non-issues as an argument against EVs

Personally I don't exactly miss the smell of diesel on my hands after filling up at the pumps. Or the queueing behind people choosing fags or doing their weekly shopping. Or those times when you have an empty tank while running late or it's pissing down with rain and you are forced to stop for fuel. Things you just put up with for years, but really notice the benefits when you suddenly don't have to. My charger cable doesn't even get dirty in the garage

[Deleted User 1874]

I kind of like that that a Leaf is 200kg lighter than the small range Model 3 and 6-700kg lighter than an S.
Energy efficiency is still a thing in a post-ICE world and it will be a very long time before energy is completely impact- and polution-free.

The BMW i3 is 200kg lighter than the Leaf.

Sure the range is not as good, but BEV fans keep telling is that you don't really need the range if you've got an overnight charge capability.

The Leaf and i3 both have their place in the market. But it's the Model 3 that will appeal to buyers currently driving around in BMW 3 series, Audi A4, Merc C class etc. It's not that much heavier than a 3-series either and the performance is very strong. I'm looking forward to trying one out when they land in the UK next year. In the meantime I tried to get my wife to look at an i3, but she totally dismissed it. Too quirky for her taste, but I quite like it as a local runabout. The Leaf simply doesn't interest either of us.

Much of the debate around charging capacity of the local network has assumed one car charging overnight. What would the power demand be for two, or even three, EVs charging on the drive?

Our local distribution network is currently carrying out a trial of "Smart Chargers" which monitor their power usage as a group and vary their maximum output according to local demand. Obviously today the demand is very low, so they are simulating the power management strategy. Can't say I've noticed when the charge rate drops off during simulated peak demand periods. I simply plug in at night and always have a full charge next morning. On a typical night I only need maybe 3-5 hours of charging at the maximum 8kW rate anyway, so it doesn't really matter if the rate is reduced for a few hours.

Also don't forget that average home energy consumption has actually been falling for a number of years with the growing adoption of energy efficient lighting, heating, insulation and more energy efficient appliances. So there is some room for EV charging to take up that slack and over-night charging will flatten out the power demand curve over a 24 hour period, which is more efficient.

I think power demand would only be a major problem if everyone changed to EVs literally overnight and that is most definitely not going to happen. We're looking at a multiple decade timeframe here and even then there will still be a significant percentage of ICE vehicles on our roads.

[happy days]

Preston Porsche will open next Spring and their location is such that dropping off the Macan EV to charge and going for a walk around the dock area, the shops, or the pub or simply to take onboard a freebie coffee is possible.

I wonder how much they would charge for a top up?

[Dandock]

Preston Porsche will open next Spring and their location is such that dropping off the Macan EV to charge and going for a walk around the dock area, the shops, or the pub or simply to take onboard a freebie coffee is possible.

I wonder how much they would charge for a top up?

There should be no need to go for a walk as the Porsche charging facility will include refreshments, a lounge area and other typical Porsche customer stuff.

No nasty coffee and fast food outlets there.

[Nuclear Nick]

The Leaf and i3 both have their place in the market. But it's the Model 3 that will appeal to buyers currently driving around in BMW 3 series, Audi A4, Merc C class etc. It's not that much heavier than a 3-series either and the performance is very strong. I'm looking forward to trying one out when they land in the UK next year. In the meantime I tried to get my wife to look at an i3, but she totally dismissed it. Too quirky for her taste, but I quite like it as a local runabout. The Leaf simply doesn't interest either of us.

Much of the debate around charging capacity of the local network has assumed one car charging overnight. What would the power demand be for two, or even three, EVs charging on the drive?

Our local distribution network is currently carrying out a trial of "Smart Chargers" which monitor their power usage as a group and vary their maximum output according to local demand. Obviously today the demand is very low, so they are simulating the power management strategy. Can't say I've noticed when the charge rate drops off during simulated peak demand periods. I simply plug in at night and always have a full charge next morning. On a typical night I only need maybe 3-5 hours of charging at the maximum 8kW rate anyway, so it doesn't really matter if the rate is reduced for a few hours.

Also don't forget that average home energy consumption has actually been falling for a number of years with the growing adoption of energy efficient lighting, heating, insulation and more energy efficient appliances. So there is some room for EV charging to take up that slack and over-night charging will flatten out the power demand curve over a 24 hour period, which is more efficient.

I think power demand would only be a major problem if everyone changed to EVs literally overnight and that is most definitely not going to happen. We're looking at a multiple decade timeframe here and even then there will still be a significant percentage of ICE vehicles on our roads.

I can see that smart chargers will be needed to manage peak demands. A bit like 'traffic shaping' broadband during peak periods, or 'smart motorways' slowing traffic flow to try to keep it moving. All techniques to avoid having to plan and spend on the infrastructure that we really need to do the job properly for the long term. Just like those dysfunctional incompetents in Bt did when they were given all that taxpayers' money and then didn't deliver an acceptable broadband network, making us the laughing stock of the world.
I'm not trying to be a naysayer here, just musing how, for example, all electric home owners with two or three EVs that are in daily use will need to understand what limitations there may be to getting them fully charged up each night. Many will want to do that during their seven hours of low rate juice on an E7 tariff, unless they are banned of course.
No doubt the network planners have this all in hand..............

[Deleted User 1874]

Much of the debate around charging capacity of the local network has assumed one car charging overnight. What would the power demand be for two, or even three, EVs charging on the drive?

Our local distribution network is currently carrying out a trial of "Smart Chargers" which monitor their power usage as a group and vary their maximum output according to local demand. Obviously today the demand is very low, so they are simulating the power management strategy. Can't say I've noticed when the charge rate drops off during simulated peak demand periods. I simply plug in at night and always have a full charge next morning. On a typical night I only need maybe 3-5 hours of charging at the maximum 8kW rate anyway, so it doesn't really matter if the rate is reduced for a few hours.

Also don't forget that average home energy consumption has actually been falling for a number of years with the growing adoption of energy efficient lighting, heating, insulation and more energy efficient appliances. So there is some room for EV charging to take up that slack and over-night charging will flatten out the power demand curve over a 24 hour period, which is more efficient.

I think power demand would only be a major problem if everyone changed to EVs literally overnight and that is most definitely not going to happen. We're looking at a multiple decade timeframe here and even then there will still be a significant percentage of ICE vehicles on our roads.

I can see that smart chargers will be needed to manage peak demands. A bit like 'traffic shaping' broadband during peak periods, or 'smart motorways' slowing traffic flow to try to keep it moving. All techniques to avoid having to plan and spend on the infrastructure that we really need to do the job properly for the long term. Just like those dysfunctional incompetents in Bt did when they were given all that taxpayers' money and then didn't deliver an acceptable broadband network, making us the laughing stock of the world.
I'm not trying to be a naysayer here, just musing how, for example, all electric home owners with two or three EVs that are in daily use will need to understand what limitations there may be to getting them fully charged up each night. Many will want to do that during their seven hours of low rate juice on an E7 tariff, unless they are banned of course.
No doubt the network planners have this all in hand..............

I expect E7 tariffs will simply disappear (they're not that popular in the domestic market today anyway). Might even see a reversal with more expensive night rates vs day rates once EVs become mainstream and night time demand becomes much higher. Pricing all comes down to demand and supply in the end. At present, early EV adopters can make full use of E7 while it's still cheap, although I'm on a flat rate tariff that works out cheaper overall than most of the current E7 tariffs.

Smart chargers may well be a temporary solution to managing peak demand, but it does make sense for them to have that ability as a safeguard. But all this is really a non-issue for anyone buying an EV today. Personally, I will probably make use of solar and battery storage in future, which will reduce my demand for grid power quite considerably.

[Deleted User 1874]

Preston Porsche will open next Spring and their location is such that dropping off the Macan EV to charge and going for a walk around the dock area, the shops, or the pub or simply to take onboard a freebie coffee is possible.

I wonder how much they would charge for a top up?

There should be no need to go for a walk as the Porsche charging facility will include refreshments, a lounge area and other typical Porsche customer stuff.

No nasty coffee and fast food outlets there.

I wonder how many rapid charging points they intend to install at a typical OPC? Is it going to be a token gesture 1 or 2 points or proper banks of 6 or 8 rapid chargers? I strongly expect the former given how few Taycans will be out in the wild in the next couple of years, but once they start producing higher volume EVs I doubt they will want loads of them freeloading at the OPC on a regular basis. Tesla don't have rapid chargers at any of their service centres, usually just a few regular domestic 8 kW chargers for cars in service and for charging new cars ready for delivery etc. It's really motorway and major A-road services where you want to find rapid chargers, directly en-route to your destination.

[Dandock]

I wonder how much they would charge for a top up?

There should be no need to go for a walk as the Porsche charging facility will include refreshments, a lounge area and other typical Porsche customer stuff.

No nasty coffee and fast food outlets there.

I wonder how many rapid charging points they intend to install at a typical OPC? Is it going to be a token gesture 1 or 2 points or proper banks of 6 or 8 rapid chargers? I strongly expect the former given how few Taycans will be out in the wild in the next couple of years, but once they start producing higher volume EVs I doubt they will want loads of them freeloading at the OPC on a regular basis. Tesla don't have rapid chargers at any of their service centres, usually just a few regular domestic 8 kW chargers for cars in service and for charging new cars ready for delivery etc. It's really motorway and major A-road services where you want to find rapid chargers, directly en-route to your destination.

My understanding is of a substantial investment involving multiple chargers, lounge & business facilities etc. Tewkesbury OPC are increasing the size of their current site by, perhaps, 25% - possibly more.

Ed.

The entire green area to the rear of the building at the foot and to left of the car park. According to my SE this was earmarked for the development and to open in about 12 months. Just what he said, mind! . Similar facilities to be rolled out at all/suitable OPCs.