Hybrid & Tesla

[Dandock]

Battery tech is not improving so quickly as to make any particular EV obsolete over a typical lifecycle.

I guess the one aspect that may be improving, at least incrementally, is battery packaging and associated weight and volume, so maybe >90kWh could become available in eg I-Pace sized cars or 80-90kWh in somewhat smaller vehicles than at present.

I think that’s exactly the problem in that batteries are not getting smaller, or lighter. And they still need cooling both whilst running and charging. A difficult circle to square. Porsche are actually taking a slightly different route compared to current solutions and it remains to be seen what difference that will make.

So... we now have new players in Jag, Merc and from this week, Audi. All big vehicles though which just demonstrates the dilemma.

[johnd]

I think that’s exactly the problem in that batteries are not getting smaller, or lighter.

No, what I'm saying is the reverse, ie that there ARE improvements in size/weight (what do they call it - energy density?). The packaging of I-Pace batteries for instance is supposed to be significantly better than the previous generation of batteries - not hugely, I think the benefits are relatively modest - only eg 10% per generation, but over time it's all heading in the right direction.

Not going to make much difference to eg 2019 or 2020 models but by the time that the I-Pace facelift comes around for 2022/3 then there could well be eg a 10-15% improvement in range, maybe a little more, as a result of progress with battery size/weight.

[goron59]

The Tesla roadster will need a huge step change in energy density if it's going to meet the stated goals of performance, range and capacity. Indeed it'll be big step change in the current state of the solidstate art. I'm sure it will come, but perhaps not as quick as Musk thinks.

But look at the Nissan Leaf. Compared to the original (2010?), the new model has 38% more power, 50% greater range, and only around 20kg heavier. That's good going by any standard.

[Dandock]

But look at the Nissan Leaf. Compared to the original (2010?), the new model has 38% more power, 50% greater range, and only around 20kg heavier. That's good going by any standard.

Indeed. But like all technological advances progress will be liable to slow and even stall with time.

[johnd]

Indeed. But like all technological advances progress will be liable to slow and even stall with time.

That's a glass half empty point of view if ever I heard one. You may be right. But the reverse could well be true too, especially if the switch to EVs gathers momentum giving still more incentive for manufacturers to innovate with their R&D.

FWIW I suspect there's enough power available already - the maximum current draw available from the batteries is probably plenty now. It's improving the balance between size/weight and hence range that probably still needs work, though even there a further build-out of the rapid charger network would tend to ameliorate that advantage. But maybe the average driver won't be happy until there's comfortable 350-400 mile range - ie comparable to the average petrol car. And I suspect that reducing battery cost might be an important priority too.

[Dandock]

Indeed. But like all technological advances progress will be liable to slow and even stall with time.

That's a glass half empty point of view if ever I heard one. You may be right. But the reverse could well be true too, especially if the switch to EVs gathers momentum giving still more incentive for manufacturers to innovate with their R&D.

FWIW I suspect there's enough power available already - the maximum current draw available from the batteries is probably plenty now. It's improving the balance between size/weight and hence range that probably still needs work, though even there a further build-out of the rapid charger network would tend to ameliorate that advantage. But maybe the average driver won't be happy until there's comfortable 350-400 mile range - ie comparable to the average petrol car. And I suspect that reducing battery cost might be an important priority too.

I had current technology in mind however I’m also sure and looking forward to the next step change whatever that may be.

I also think the range issue will diminish once the market has confidence which it certainly doesn’t have at present. Albeit is growing.

What I do think will help is speed* and a common standard that can be facilitated by various means and an end to VHS v Betamax situation that we currently have.

* to be trapped for an hour at some god forsaken service station really doesn’t sit well with me.

[goron59]

I kind of like that that a Leaf is 200kg lighter than the small range Model 3 and 6-700kg lighter than an S.
Energy efficiency is still a thing in a post-ICE world and it will be a very long time before energy is completely impact- and polution-free.

The BMW i3 is 200kg lighter than the Leaf.

Sure the range is not as good, but BEV fans keep telling is that you don't really need the range if you've got an overnight charge capability.

[Wing Commander]

...Roll on 15 months and now I would have no problem buying an EV and in fact I cannot see me buying anything but an EV...

So have no fear, order that X or Model 3 today...

Have you been ‘recruited’ by Peteski, Col?

[Deleted User 1874]

I kind of like that that a Leaf is 200kg lighter than the small range Model 3 and 6-700kg lighter than an S.
Energy efficiency is still a thing in a post-ICE world and it will be a very long time before energy is completely impact- and polution-free.

The BMW i3 is 200kg lighter than the Leaf.

Sure the range is not as good, but BEV fans keep telling is that you don't really need the range if you've got an overnight charge capability.

The Leaf and i3 both have their place in the market. But it's the Model 3 that will appeal to buyers currently driving around in BMW 3 series, Audi A4, Merc C class etc. It's not that much heavier than a 3-series either and the performance is very strong. I'm looking forward to trying one out when they land in the UK next year. In the meantime I tried to get my wife to look at an i3, but she totally dismissed it. Too quirky for her taste, but I quite like it as a local runabout. The Leaf simply doesn't interest either of us.

[Bigboyrolo]

I do like plenty of space around my car when I park up for the night though . Its a good night stop if you are in the area - Logis Auberges des Moissons at Matouges, just off the A26, a fair price for excellent rooms but restaurant can be pricey - a truffle & champagne specialist.48A05D04-BB60-497C-B337-007C9C216FE0.jpeg

We found all the “proper” places full on our arrival notably one with a Tesla !
We thought it polite to reciprocate

93DC26B1-EB1D-4110-BD57-3EC8B70B5611.jpeg

PS. concur with your opinion of the place, except we chose the formule menu - couldn’t quite stretch to your champagne and truffles

Please to learn that you stayed there and enjoyed it. We we nearby 2 weeks ago although we stayed in Epernay,, not good value compare this place. We'll be back, in the Hybrid.