PDK vs Manual

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MacanArif
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Post by MacanArif »

I'll preface this by apologising to Macan owners as it's a Macan unrelated post once again.

Having driven manual Porsches before, I did really enjoy the experience but felt I couldn't live with them on a day to day basis (hard clutch in constant traffic and all that) and since the advent of the superb PDK box, have always felt it was the best option for me, even when faced with the decision of a manual vs PDK GT3.

From purely an investment point of view I think a manual GT3 may have a better residual but I want to drive the thing myself and hence went for the PDK.

I know some of you have bought manuals recently and just wondered what they are like to live with on a daily basis. I know people are unlikely to say anything negative about what they have purchased but just wondered if people could share some reflections on living with their cars daily. You never know I might get the chance to buy a manual Porsche in the future and wondered whether it is something I should consider in the future? I know the 6 speed GT3 manual is different to the 7 speed manual box, so would be interested to hear the experiences of both.

As I've said PDK for me is superb, the shifts are so quick and the thing fits perfectly with the character of the GT3, and is super easy to live with.
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Previous Macan SD, Macan Turbo, Macan Turbo, 991.1 C4GTS coupe, 996 C4S coupe, Macan Turbo, 991.2 C4GTS coupe; 991.2 GT3; 992 C2S; 991.1 Turbo S

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ScotMac
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Post by ScotMac »

Cannot comment on Porsche manual however.

I think the PDK is brilliant and suits the Macan. To be honest I'm still not that great in "manual mode" and don't use it that often.

We also have an Audi TT manual which I think is so much sportier. I think a "proper sports car" should have a "proper manual box".
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Miopyk
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Post by Miopyk »

My old Boxster was a manual and I really enjoyed the interaction when out for a fast cross country run with the roof down. However the PDK box in our Cayman is just as much fun once you learn how to use it properly and you have the advantage of letting it do the work when you want to be lazy. I should mention that the 9g box in our diesel SLK is so smooth that 90% of the time the gear changes are imperceptible. It might be an age thing but I'm not sure I'd ever buy another car with a manual box unless the auto option is complete crap.
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MikeM
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Post by MikeM »

Hi Arif,
Re your question, my personal experience was with a 7 speed manual and quite honestly did not enjoy the very heavy clutch and the notchy gear selection. I regularly drive and enjoy manual cars in many guises, also have a Golf GTI and a MGRV8 that has an ancient Rover box in it, both of which are slicker, smoother and more comfortable than the 7 speed unit. I did have one of the first of the 991S models and it may now be more refined, so may be worth getting a loaner for a long test experience.
Previous Porsche’s
2008. 987 Boxster S Sport basalt
2012. 991 Carrera S aqua
2016. Macan Turbo volcano
Current
2020. Macan GTS crayon
2024. Macan GTS gentian sometime this year https://configurator.porsche.com/porsche-code/PR8H7WC6
alxgb
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Post by alxgb »

MacanArif wrote: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:04 pm I'll preface this by apologising to Macan owners as it's a Macan unrelated post once again.

Having driven manual Porsches before, I did really enjoy the experience but felt I couldn't live with them on a day to day basis (hard clutch in constant traffic and all that) and since the advent of the superb PDK box, have always felt it was the best option for me, even when faced with the decision of a manual vs PDK GT3.

From purely an investment point of view I think a manual GT3 may have a better residual but I want to drive the thing myself and hence went for the PDK.

I know some of you have bought manuals recently and just wondered what they are like to live with on a daily basis. I know people are unlikely to say anything negative about what they have purchased but just wondered if people could share some reflections on living with their cars daily. You never know I might get the chance to buy a manual Porsche in the future and wondered whether it is something I should consider in the future? I know the 6 speed GT3 manual is different to the 7 speed manual box, so would be interested to hear the experiences of both.

As I've said PDK for me is superb, the shifts are so quick and the thing fits perfectly with the character of the GT3, and is super easy to live with.
I think the right answer will always come down to what you're going to do with the car and the character of the car itself. You won't get a definitive answer from a forum no more than you would a definitive answer on whether blondes or brunettes are better. Unless Hef is on here and he'd probably take 7 blondes. ;)

If you're driving on track and using it daily - PDK. Infrequent use and mixed driving, as long as the ratios on the manual are to your taste - manual. No driver, no matter their skill will be as quick and consistent as PDK which if you're on a track allows you more time to focus on things that you don't have to think about when you're on the road. When you sell a manual GT car, you betcha there is going to be an engine rev range check and if you've driven it like you should have, you'll have probably mis-shifted at some point and it'll be there to talk about. The vagaries of that are a whole different topic. PDK should always have Sport Chrono (on a GT or GTS car) IMHO which makes the car more suitable for driving conditions and thus easier to live with. I'd argue that you get more variety in the mappings + manual mode with paddles in substitution for the manual engagement and loss of a clutch pedal.

I have PDK on my Cayman R as I used it in London. It's last generation 997/987 technology. It's good but grateful I specified Sport Chrono as I spend most of my time in Sport or if on track, Sport+. In standard mode, I can wrong foot the car if I am in a pattern of driving and it almost has to be shaken out of its lull. In Sport, it's not an issue but between 2-3k, it has a dead spot which due to the map causing the engine to rev higher, you're shifting outside of that range so don't notice it but you look a tit if you spend your time driving around with the engine revving high all the time. Sport+ is too aggressive for road use. I got a 991.1 GT3 about 2 years after I got the R and got to compare PDK next to PDK-S. What a difference and probably an unfair comparison. The problem was that it was too easy to go fast but other than the low front and speed humps, it was very easy to live with. I think a manual on that car and easing over the speed humps of London would have made me give up the car on that alone. There were 12 speed humps from my house to the main road. That'll kill anyone's enthusiasm.

Then the GT4 came along and I didn't have a choice but wanted manual. It's fabulous. Some people think the gearing is too tall but I disagree - I think you end up constantly fidgeting with the gearbox if it's too short. Sharkwerks have gotten the recalibration right and shifting up and down on single plane in 3rd and 4th is much smoother than 2nd to 3rd (where you're diagonally shifting). The right ratios and shift pattern make a difference. The spring rate on the clutch pedal on my GT4 is hard going in crawling traffic. I only use the car on weekends and would think twice about daily use if I was going near heavy traffic. Maybe I've become too used to automatic gear boxes and a bit like writing, I hardly write anything anymore compared to school and university and my hand aches if I have to write anything of any length. Just like my leg if I have spent an hour in traffic in the GT4. Funnily enough, I don't notice it if I've had a smooth drive out with no heavy traffic, it feels just right.

I ordered the 991.2 GT3 in manual. Partly due to the fact that I knew it was getting the same box as the 911R and it had a motorsport motor. Knowing someone with a 911R whose opinion I respect, he said the gearbox was the best he'd driven in any Porsche. Then I had the RS dilemma I posted about recently and gave up my car a week before it was due to arrive in the UK. I've got PDK in the RS (I had no choice as you likely know) which I think suits the character of that car as the fastest NA Porsche. I think PDK will make it very usable but it won't be a daily. Next GT4 will be manual for me though, even if offered in PDK.

The problem I have with PDK in GT cars is that it's so easy to do silly speed and get there without much effort. I have not missed the 991.1 GT3 once. Impressive engineering but it was clinical and scalpel like and didn't reward you in the same way as a manual. I am very apprehensive about my decision to do the swap for the RS in PDK and think it's right for the car but not sure if it will be right for me. Only time will tell.
N13LXC
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Post by N13LXC »

alxgb - good comparison, and well considered...

A good point for you on the GT3 vs. GT3-RS - even if you don't like it, you can always jump back to a GT3 manual - the uplift in price will be more than covered in the increase for the RS, so well worth the "risk"...

hope you don't have to though...
Current: 991.2 GTS, Gtd
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Deleted User 1874

Post by Deleted User 1874 »

Personally I would also choose PDK on any modern Porsche. I've owned a good few manual Porsches, but to me PDK is a good step forward in transmission technology and don't see the point in living in the past unless getting into a classic Porsche.
alxgb
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Post by alxgb »

N13LXC wrote: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:04 pm alxgb - good comparison, and well considered...

A good point for you on the GT3 vs. GT3-RS - even if you don't like it, you can always jump back to a GT3 manual - the uplift in price will be more than covered in the increase for the RS, so well worth the "risk"...

hope you don't have to though...
I think the biggest problem in all of this is that you're frequently not able to make a comparison before a car arrives so are effectively buying blind and on the strength of Porsche being hit makers coupled with reading the reviews of reviewers whose opinions have aligned with your experiences. Which is tenuous. If you could test drive a manual GT versus a PDK GT, that would probably change a few orders. It's only when you drive your car on your local roads, take it down to your local shops and get it up the ramp into your own garage that you get to see the nuances that will tell you whether you can live with the car or not.

I don't know if I have made the right decision with the RS - financially, yes but emotionally, I'll kick myself if I sold on the opportunity to own one of the finest Porsches out of Weissach and last NA GT3 if they turbo the 992 series. From a futures perspective, the GT3 would be a good long term bet. I think if the RS isn't for me, I won't buy another GT3 and will just put the money into the next GT4.

I hope I do like the RS but I saw some pictures of one recently and the scale of the wing is approaching cup car levels and really not for me. Still a bit surreal that I'm getting one - first RS for me. Chatted to the guy I did the swap with the other day and I can understand his decision, he collects Ferraris and Porsches and has a Speciale and Speciale Aperta so doesn't really want for dual clutch cars.
Scott Cowan
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Post by Scott Cowan »

I initially had a manual 911 on order.. After two macans and a cayenne I hankered after a car with a manual shift again (had lotusses, mk2 mx-5 in the past). I still regularly drive manual cars so wasn't rusty. Drove a manual demonstrator on back roads near Glasgow and it was fine. Then drove another manual 911 at PEC day but was left feeling a little bit deflated. It's good and precise.. but simply not engaging or special enough over the PDK, not to mention the additional benefits of PDK. However I suspect a manual 911T might be a better bet with the shorter throw etc. .
Thankfully I managed to blag a shot in a PDK version at the PEC and immediately changed my mind on getting a manual. Haven't regretted the decision to continue with PDK. It's personal preference when all's said and done though.
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Frenchy
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Post by Frenchy »

PDK gives the best of both worlds, cool or sporty driving - also if manual gear boxes were so great on track , why Formula one don t use them anymore?
Having say that, it s great to still have the choice as in 10yrs time , e-cars will not offer any options...
Macan GTS - http://www.porsche-code.com/PHWGUL86
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