EV future and Porsche

[Col Lamb]

There is no need to change over to EV production, the production line is a flexible system where multiple models and variants are produced one after the other, Macan, Cayenne and Panamera are all produced in the same factory.

Its the body panel plant, body assemby, treatment and paintwork that take the most time to adapt. Body panels are created for one model, dyes are changed and another run produces body panels for a different models etc. Setting up the robotic assembly line is another significant task.

Fitting components, drives systems, battery packs all become routine and flexible on the production line.

You are certainly right that manufacturers plan wisely and hats off to Jag, since by setting up iPace production at one factory this is then the their Beta testing of the processing required and hence they will learn just how to integrate EV production alongside ICE.

[Deleted User 1874]

You are certainly right that manufacturers plan wisely

I wouldn't say they do that! Looks more like panic stations to get EVs onto the market asap. I agree, well done to Jaguar for being first to market - only 6 years behind Tesla.

Honestly I think the mainstream car industry has had its pants pulled down by Tesla and now they are trying to catch up - in a half-arsed sort of way. Listening to Porsche engineers and execs talking about future EVs is crystal clear that they've only just accepted that full EVs are the future (probably). You have to have some serious conviction to make EVs a reality, like Tesla did, and I haven't seen that from anyone else yet. Maybe Volvo are taking it seriously now with their future plans, but again it remains to be seen in their product lineup. Their latest PHEVs didn't quite do it for me.

[Dandock]

I think part, and maybe a large part, of Porsche’s dilemma is resistance to change from their customer base. Psychologically the move to EV is massive to the traditional Porsche customer - reference water cooling, turbos, manual gearboxes, 718 engines, Cayenne and Macan... hence Porsche continuing to pander to their market with manual 911s etc and their continuing emphasis of their commitment to ICEs.

[SAC1]

What's the rush? It's 2018 so they've got 21 years to evaluate and plan for the (muted) ICE ban for brand new cars by 2040. A year is a lifetime in politics and who knows what the future of vehicle propulsion will actually be by then.

Porsche are being somewhat pragmatic in not being rushed at this early stage.


8-track cartridge player, cassette tape, CD, memory stick have previously had their champions, but look where music is now accessed.

[Col Lamb]

What's the rush? It's 2018 so they've got 21 years to evaluate and plan for the (muted) ICE ban for brand new cars by 2040. A year is a lifetime in politics and who knows what the future of vehicle propulsion will actually be by then.

Porsche are being somewhat pragmatic in not being rushed at this early stage.


8-track cartridge player, cassette tape, CD, memory stick have previously had their champions, but look where music is know accessed.

Sorry but they do not have 21 years to evaluate and plan.

It is not as though the change from ICE to EV will happen overnight, it will be a progressive action, but it has to happen we have no alternative.

Our Government has to tackle pollution within our Cities and Towns, they do not have 21 years to come up with a plan to tackle it and the move to EV will be a major step in reducing localised pollution.

London is the only UK City that is tackling pollution by limiting vehicles with the Conjestion Charge but come it its a token jesture, you can walk from one side of the zone to the other in 45 minutes. Other Towns and Cities are trying to encourage more public transport usage by having Metros installed.

For the sake of your kids we all need to support the move away from ICEs to EVs where the pollution source will be the power station where they can at least limit the pollution that electricity generation causes.

[Taz]

I would not be at all surprised if the next 20 years not only sees a change from ICE to EV but also brings about the collapse of some major manufacturers and the birth of some new ones.

Cars are the tip of the iceberg; it’s what is going to happen with trucks, vans, buses, ships, construction plant, etc., that interests me.

[SAC1]

What's the rush? It's 2018 so they've got 21 years to evaluate and plan for the (muted) ICE ban for brand new cars by 2040. A year is a lifetime in politics and who knows what the future of vehicle propulsion will actually be by then.

Porsche are being somewhat pragmatic in not being rushed at this early stage.


8-track cartridge player, cassette tape, CD, memory stick have previously had their champions, but look where music is know accessed.

Sorry but they do not have 21 years to evaluate and plan.

It is not as though the change from ICE to EV will happen overnight, it will be a progressive action, but it has to happen we have no alternative.

Our Government has to tackle pollution within our Cities and Towns, they do not have 21 years to come up with a plan to tackle it and the move to EV will be a major step in reducing localised pollution.

London is the only UK City that is tackling pollution by limiting vehicles with the Conjestion Charge but come it its a token jesture, you can walk from one side of the zone to the other in 45 minutes. Other Towns and Cities are trying to encourage more public transport usage by having Metros installed.

For the sake of your kids we all need to support the move away from ICEs to EVs where the pollution source will be the power station where they can at least limit the pollution that electricity generation causes.

I am conscious of the pollution issues.

My point is that EV is not the universal alternative for ICE. Not everyone has the option to plug in a vehicle, whether by wire or wireless. Even if you can there are safety, vandalism and theft issues. Then there's the time needed to recharge. Not to mention the sheer number of chargers needed for the 30+ million UK vehicles.

Will universal plugs and sockets become standardised? as opposed to the number of different ones already in evidence with the small number of EVs currently on the market. If not it will make recharging even more difficult practically. Unless the exclusive and expensive Tesla model is adopted.

The sheer volume of the charging points will become a real danger - especially those in the public domain as presumably they will not be constantly 'overseen' by a council or company as petrol stations are regulated now. The cables and plugs / sockets will deteriorate over time and who will maintain and ensure their safety fitness for purpose ongoing?

What is needed is an alternative non-polluting, or equivalent EV level, propulsion 'fuel' that can be filled relatively quickly at a convenient location for multi-vehicle accessibility. LPG has been around for ages but is not the future, Hydrogen is being evaluated, Bosch is working on a new solution for ICE engines, Synthetic diesel and petrol are muted. Here's where the 21 years comes in.

[Deleted User 1874]

What's the rush? It's 2018 so they've got 21 years to evaluate and plan for the (muted) ICE ban for brand new cars by 2040. A year is a lifetime in politics and who knows what the future of vehicle propulsion will actually be by then.

Porsche are being somewhat pragmatic in not being rushed at this early stage.


8-track cartridge player, cassette tape, CD, memory stick have previously had their champions, but look where music is know accessed.

Sorry but they do not have 21 years to evaluate and plan.

It is not as though the change from ICE to EV will happen overnight, it will be a progressive action, but it has to happen we have no alternative.

Our Government has to tackle pollution within our Cities and Towns, they do not have 21 years to come up with a plan to tackle it and the move to EV will be a major step in reducing localised pollution.

London is the only UK City that is tackling pollution by limiting vehicles with the Conjestion Charge but come it its a token jesture, you can walk from one side of the zone to the other in 45 minutes. Other Towns and Cities are trying to encourage more public transport usage by having Metros installed.

For the sake of your kids we all need to support the move away from ICEs to EVs where the pollution source will be the power station where they can at least limit the pollution that electricity generation causes.

I am conscious of the pollution issues.

My point is that EV is not the universal alternative for ICE. Not everyone has the option to plug in a vehicle, whether by wire or wireless. Even if you can there are safety, vandalism and theft issues. Then there's the time needed to recharge. Not to mention the sheer number of chargers needed for the 30+ million UK vehicles.

Will universal plugs and sockets become standardised? as opposed to the number of different ones already in evidence with the small number of EVs currently on the market. If not it will make recharging even more difficult practically. Unless the exclusive and expensive Tesla model is adopted.

The sheer volume of the charging points will become a real danger - especially those in the public domain as presumably they will not be constantly 'overseen' by a council or company as petrol stations are regulated now. The cables and plugs / sockets will deteriorate over time and who will maintain and ensure their safety fitness for purpose ongoing?

What is needed is an alternative non-polluting, or equivalent EV level, propulsion 'fuel' that can be filled relatively quickly at a convenient location for multi-vehicle accessibility. LPG has been around for ages but is not the future, Hydrogen is being evaluated, Bosch is working on a new solution for ICE engines, Synthetic diesel and petrol are muted. Here's where the 21 years comes in.

Of course there are issues to overcome, as there always is with change. But for personal transport at least, EV is the only viable future (as in the next few decades at least) IF you want to breathe cleaner air in the city. Personally I don't often go into cities, but whenever I visit London the smell of fumes and rattle of diesel engines is terrible. I guess you get used to it if you live there, but it still messes up your health. It would also help if people used their legs a bit more often whenever they have a choice.

As for alternatives, can we really afford to have 30+ million vehicles on the road? It's not like there is enough proper parking for them anyway and traffic congestion is already a major issue in many places. Walk around any average housing estate and cars are literally littered everywhere, blocking pavements and access all over the place. None of them apparently in use for 90% of the day. So maybe it's time to limit the number of cars we can own and/or limit their usage? The whole concept of private car ownership is likely to change over the next few decades, not just fuel types. But most of them will be EVs from what I can see.

What is very clear is that the current situation is a totally unsustainable bubble and the mainstream manufacturers are facing the biggest dilemma of their 100 year history. Those who stick their heads in the sand will be gone, while others will flourish. I think it's a very interesting time ahead, but also quite scary if it goes wrong. Some respected scientists are saying that we have already crossed the line of no return in climate change and many more think that we are on course to step over it with no way of stopping in time, but we just have to hope they are all being too pessimistic. To say that there is no rush in changing course is totally missing the bigger picture! Or maybe you simply don't believe in science?

[SAC1]

Yes I believe in science and really do hope that scientists find more viable non-polluting power alternatives, because the practical EV issues have not been answered. The EVangelists are very quiet about those aspects.

You say "So maybe it's time to limit the number of cars we can own and/or limit their usage?" So does that include limiting the number of train, bus, plane and ship journeys we can make in future too? Big Brother will be watching......

[Deleted User 1874]

You say "So maybe it's time to limit the number of cars we can own and/or limit their usage?" So does that include limiting the number of train, bus, plane and ship journeys we can make in future too? Big Brother will be watching......

Quite possibly as they all use finite resources. That includes EVs as well in the long term. But that doesn't mean we should continue polluting with ICE cars when there is a viable, less polluting alternative - unless you seriously think EVs are equal or more polluting overall? People make all sorts of excuses why they can't adapt and often refuse to make compromises. But at some point they will have no choice and most of the issues will be overcome. It's not going to happen overnight, but it needs to happen sooner rather than later.

Whether you like it or not, the next decade will see a rapidly growing number of EVs running alongside cleaner ICE based vehicles and perhaps hydrogen will make some progress too. There is no need for a single solution, but you are in denial if you think EV is not the main solution for personal transport over the next 20 or 30 years. You only have to look at what manufacturers are planning and future legislation.