Re Electric anyone here considering?

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John_M
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Post by John_M »

davetronic wrote: Mon May 07, 2018 12:18 pmBetter surely to pass a law against jaywalking, using phones & headphones when crossing roads, etc.
And make it illegal to be blind/poorly sighted while at it - we use more than just our eyes to keep us safe, which is probably as well since our eyes are designed to handle roads - What an RAF pilot can teach us about being safe on the road, white noise seems to more effective in helping people identify location of source, and can be much quieter than fixed tones so shouldn't be as bad as normal engined cars

Col Lamb
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Post by Col Lamb »

davetronic wrote: Mon May 07, 2018 12:18 pm Not sure how this new “white noise” stuff is going to affect EVs. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rians.html. Sounds like a nightmare in traffic. Better surely to pass a law against jaywalking, using phones & headphones when crossing roads, etc. And fitting a noise generator to pushbikes in built up areas!
Keen to see the iPace but have a pathological dislike of Jaguars, and my wife still thinks they are for the Arthur Daleys of this world. However, also getting tired of waiting for sensible info on facelift Macans from Porsche having had a deposit down for ages. They must know what they are going to be selling so why not tell us? Need to sell my Ghibli before too long so will be checking out the iPace ASAP.
Jaguar.

In owning a Jag for 11 years it had two faults, an occasional fault with the car going into limp home mode, and a faulty engine sensor. So pretty minor in 100,000 miles of motoring.

What does suck it the quality of the dealer network.

So I would urge anyone considering a Jag to do research into the quality of service you can expect from a specific dealer.

Not that it will stay the same, when I purchased the Jag, service was superb, two changes of dealer ownership later it was dire.
Col
Macan Turbo
Air, 20” wheels, ACC, Pano, SurCam, 14w, LEDs, PS+, Int Light Pack, Heated seats and Steering, spare wheel, SC, Privacy glass, PDK gear, SD mirrors, Met Black, rear airbags
MCDK
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Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:54 pm

Post by MCDK »

Electric cars are fine until they go wrong as they are complex and the local dealership technicians aren’t qualified to work on them. We have a Golf GTE in my company, failed to start on two occasions. First time in Jan it was with dealer for two weeks. Then it was ok until late March when same thing happened. Went to local dealer who quickly reached the end of their ability and even being guided by Vw head office they quickly reached issues as no one in N Ireland is permitted to work on the high voltage system. Car was recovered to VW head office in Milton Keynes where it’s currently being investigated and repaired. That’s been 10 weeks now so a total of 12 weeks without the car this year.
johnd
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Post by johnd »

MCDK wrote: Mon May 07, 2018 3:13 pm Electric cars are fine until they go wrong as they are complex...
Not sure how accurate that is. In many ways, EVs are simpler than ICE cars with much less to go wrong. What is undoubtedly true is that they require a different set of skills to troubleshoot and rectify faults and yes it will take a while before these skills are routinely available in every dealership.

VW's venture into EVs seems to have very halfhearted thus far and I guess one symptom of that is not providing sufficient EV training for service staff. New buyers of EVs probably need to do it with their eyes open, realising that there are likely to be bumps in the road for early adopters of new models and in the expectation that things should be markedly improved in a year or two. If that idea puts anyone off then presumably they won't be an early adopter. It's one reason I'm looking at I-Pace for 2019 and not this year - let's just see if there are any significant issues in the first few months of production.
Last edited by johnd on Mon May 07, 2018 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Macan SD (Rhodium) www.porsche-code.com/PH4H6XU3 June 2016

Real mpg at Fuelly
Deleted User 1874

Post by Deleted User 1874 »

MCDK wrote: Mon May 07, 2018 3:13 pm Electric cars are fine until they go wrong as they are complex and the local dealership technicians aren’t qualified to work on them. We have a Golf GTE in my company, failed to start on two occasions. First time in Jan it was with dealer for two weeks. Then it was ok until late March when same thing happened. Went to local dealer who quickly reached the end of their ability and even being guided by Vw head office they quickly reached issues as no one in N Ireland is permitted to work on the high voltage system. Car was recovered to VW head office in Milton Keynes where it’s currently being investigated and repaired. That’s been 10 weeks now so a total of 12 weeks without the car this year.
EVs are not complex, just very different from ICE. They are actually more simple in principle, but most ICE dealerships know literally nothing about them. That's why it's pointless to rely on traditional franchised dealerships to support their niche EVs. VW eGolf is a good example. It will be interesting how Jaguar dealerships get on with the iPace. Simple routine servicing isn't going to be the issue, it's dealing with specific EV related faults.
Col Lamb
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Post by Col Lamb »

EVs are more complex than you think.

Its the control systems that are the complex, its not just a case of switching in the motor its a case of progressive control of the motors delivery coupled with battery performance management.

This Autocar article will give you an idea of the drive system complexities:-

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/gree ... -ev-market
Col
Macan Turbo
Air, 20” wheels, ACC, Pano, SurCam, 14w, LEDs, PS+, Int Light Pack, Heated seats and Steering, spare wheel, SC, Privacy glass, PDK gear, SD mirrors, Met Black, rear airbags
Deleted User 1874

Post by Deleted User 1874 »

Col Lamb wrote: Mon May 07, 2018 5:02 pm EVs are more complex than you think.

Its the control systems that are the complex, its not just a case of switching in the motor its a case of progressive control of the motors delivery coupled with battery performance management.

This Autocar article will give you an idea of the drive system complexities:-

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/gree ... -ev-market
I'm certainly not attempting to trivialise it, but EVs are inherently less complicated than equivalent ICE vehicles. Obviously certain specific aspects are more complicated. Battery management for example is not trivial by any means. But there are a lot less mechanical systems in an EV.
Col Lamb
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Post by Col Lamb »

True, ICE engines, gearboxes and drive systems are way more complex.

There again putting two, three or four electric motors and their drive systems in a hostile environment that is the underside of a car certainly requires some very precise and innovative engineering.

Early Tesla buyers have been Beta testers and no doubt because of the hype many thousands leapt forward to buy.

Mainstream manufacturers have to get their right, there is no way they can support the level of financial loss that Tesla has.
Col
Macan Turbo
Air, 20” wheels, ACC, Pano, SurCam, 14w, LEDs, PS+, Int Light Pack, Heated seats and Steering, spare wheel, SC, Privacy glass, PDK gear, SD mirrors, Met Black, rear airbags
Deleted User 1874

Post by Deleted User 1874 »

Col Lamb wrote: Mon May 07, 2018 5:21 pm Mainstream manufacturers have to get their right, there is no way they can support the level of financial loss that Tesla has.
That's an interesting take. As I understand it, Tesla are about the only manufacturer that has successfully made an EV that turns a profit per unit sold. Only the capex as a start-up manufacturing business is negative and only now in the red due to Model 3 manufacturing start-up. I believe most other (if not all EVs) are loss making for their respective manufacturers and are hence subsidised by ICE sales. Do correct me if I'm wrong - maybe the Leaf is now profitable, not sure about the i3. But they certainly don't make the sort of unit profit Tesla do on their sales.

Mainstream manufacturers need to get EVs right just to survive in the market long term. It's that simple. Some will make the change, some will probably fail along the way. The market demand is changing faster than the manufacturers are reacting at the moment. Jaguar will capitalise on that with demand for the iPace off the clock - will they be able to keep up with demand? Tesla already have a massive order book for the M3, while S and X sales continue to grow. EV is a market where demand will grow exponentially over the next few years.
Col Lamb
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Location: Lancashire

Post by Col Lamb »

Whilst Tesla may make a profit per sales Teslas debt is currently $10 billion, I cannot see how they can reduce that to long term survivable rates without drastic action.

That level of debt will require an awful lot of sales.

I do hope that they suceed, the industries related to Musk’s activities have certainly benefitted indirectly with there being a new kid on the block.

Whilst I have never driven a Tesla I do like the look of the S and X, not a fan of the ipad displays but for me they are to big, as it is a Macan is bigger than what I want but there is no alternative. I have driven an i3 and quite liked it for what it is and this sized car would be perfect for me.

There again the media talk is that the i3 and i8 will not be replaced, so BMW will probably have the same body shell with different power systems. I have already posted a link in another thread about the EV version of an X3 so this goes along the multi power system assumption. The new Mini EV is due next year and for me this is a distinct possibility, I have driven the Mini Hybrid but was not impressed, now a Hybrid Works S could be another matter.

Sales of EVs will grow steadily until a few more models are available then they will takeoff.

I can certainly see the Government putting more inhibitors in the way for owning an ICE car in the not to distant future such as EVs only being allowed within X miles of a City or Town centre between say 07:00 and 10:00 and again 15:00 to 19:00. This would certainly play havoc where I live as the ring road goes in a loop 1/4 mile from our City centre.
Col
Macan Turbo
Air, 20” wheels, ACC, Pano, SurCam, 14w, LEDs, PS+, Int Light Pack, Heated seats and Steering, spare wheel, SC, Privacy glass, PDK gear, SD mirrors, Met Black, rear airbags
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