Some E xciting developments coming 18/19

[SAC1]

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Electricity has to be generated to charge the EVs and new oil powered power stations will no doubt be required.

Oil is used as raw material in many other industries including plastics so there will still be a huge need.

But as much as vehicles consume now? still a huge void I would think and significantly less global oil consumption..

Oil powered power stations will just push the pollution to a more concentrated outfall surely.

[Deleted User 1874]

Don't panic Mr Mannering!

The proposal to ban the sale of new ICE cars is not for another 21.5 years. How many governments / changes of policy will we have in the intervening years - lots.

Technology will also be working hard to save ICE as there is just so much invested in them - global jobs and production facilities, massive tax payers, private, pension fund and commercial investor shareholders.

How will 3rd world countries manage without ICE? They generally do not have access to plug in electric and necessary infrastructure.

We have already seen some developments -Bosch experimental turbos for diesels, synthetic fuel etc. The Arabs will become very poor without their oil sales and the mega-major oil companies are conspicuously quiet on the potential loss of their petrol and diesel forecourt sales. What do they know that we don't?

There is certainly going to be a huge power struggle over the coming years. If the oil giants win, then we all lose - well future generations at least. The scientists certainly know it, governments know it too but don't genuinely think long term. The oil industry only cares about the money, as do most of the vehicle manufacturers. The only certainty is that the path we are currently on will not end well. The only question mark is how long?

I'm not sure why you seem so keen on preserving ICE vehicles and the oil industry that supports it. Neither have proven to be ethical or environmentally friendly. Usually quite the opposite. Personally I would prefer alternative technology to prevail, although the oil industry is certainly not going to die out completely as there will always be demand for oil for its many other uses.

[Col Lamb]

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Electricity has to be generated to charge the EVs and new oil powered power stations will no doubt be required.

Oil is used as raw material in many other industries including plastics so there will still be a huge need.

But as much as vehicles consume now? still a huge void I would think and significantly less global oil consumption..

Oil powered power stations will just push the pollution to a more concentrated outfall surely.

With a static source of pollution such as an oil fired power station it is far easier to treat the exhaust gases to remove dangerous pollutants than it is to do the same or a similar action on a small vehicle.

[Deleted User 1874]

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Electricity has to be generated to charge the EVs and new oil powered power stations will no doubt be required.

Oil is used as raw material in many other industries including plastics so there will still be a huge need.

But as much as vehicles consume now? still a huge void I would think and significantly less global oil consumption..

Oil powered power stations will just push the pollution to a more concentrated outfall surely.

With a static source of pollution such as an oil fired power station it is far easier to treat the exhaust gases to remove dangerous pollutants than it is to do the same or a similar action on a small vehicle.

Not to mention far more efficient. There's a good reason why we have grid electricity today vs everyone having their own generator in the garden.

But oil is now very much a minority source in UK grid electricity:-

Gas: 40%
Nuclear: 20%
Wind: 11%
Coal: 9%
Bio: 8%
Solar: 3%
Hydro: 1.5%
Oil and others: 8%

Right now we are very dependent on gas (Russian gas more specifically!)
Any new power stations are highly unlikely to be oil fired. Increasing nuclear is one option (following the French trend) and of course renewables are on the increase. Interestingly power demand has actually fallen in recent years, partly due to recession and partly due to increases in energy efficiency e.g. led lighting, smart heating etc, etc.

[johnd]

Isn't any talk of oil-fired stations totally wide of the mark, at least in the UK context? Are there _any_ oil generators left in the UK? Certainly not enough to figure as a separate item on:

http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

(which incidentally shows around 30% of UK demand being met from renewables right now, though the solar may well be significantly overestimated since it's not centrally metered - see note on the solar dial.)

I can imagine that the situation might be rather different around the Gulf? Now, talking about gas-fired stations would be more plausible, though these are cleaner than oil in several respects.

[Deleted User 1874]

Isn't any talk of oil-fired stations totally wide of the mark, at least in the UK context?

Yes, oil fired power stations are history in the UK. Perhaps unbelievably, there are plans (thankfully on hold) to build a couple of new COAL power stations!

[Dandock]

Re well reported fires issue it has been suggested that the cause is ‘thermal runaway ‘. Can someone please offer further explanation and, as all EV power is lithium based, potential solutions.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/sci-tech/f ... s/44118768

[johnd]

Re well reported fires issue it has been suggested that the cause is ‘thermal runaway ‘. Can someone please offer further explanation and, as all EV power is lithium based, potential solutions.

I guess it's not dissimilar to the many intense fires that sometimes occur with hydrocarbon-fuelled vehicles after a major collision (and indeed sometimes because of other technical faults or mishaps), some occasionally fatal when the occupants are trapped inside, or eg at filling stations. But presumably similar solutions will be used in EVs as are used in their traditional 20th century counterparts?

[Col Lamb]

I would rather have any type of power station built except a nuke.

Nukes are an environmental disaster, with huge amounts of CO2 alone being released into the atmosphere by the production of thousands of tonnes of concrete.

So what does our Government do, award a contract to the Chinese and French to build one.

[johnd]

Nukes are an environmental disaster, with huge amounts of CO2 alone being released into the atmosphere by the production of thousands of tonnes of concrete.

Hmm, well, it's true that the through-life carbon budget of nuclear power stations does reveal significant amounts of CO2 released. But it's only about 30% of gas-fired stations (and actually about 10% of coal-fired). So if you're going to generate power at all then the best option is certainly renewables (about 5-6% of the gas-fired CO2 release). But nuclear is then the next best thing and probably unavoidable to the extent that you need reliable base-load.