Some E xciting developments coming 18/19

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Dandock
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Post by Dandock »

Wing Commander wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 6:08 pm One thing is certain, Mike. The next few years will be an interesting period for those of us who like to follow automotive developments. :geek: :)
Ah, the voice of diplomacy. 😂
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VanB
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Post by VanB »

Dandock wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 5:54 pm
Wing Commander wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 5:37 pm It is a good thing that in a few years' time, prospective buyers will have a decent choice of EV provider including Porsche, Audi, Jaguar and Tesla. :)
Currently they're operating in a vacuum and good competition can only be a good driver. I'm still, though, not convinced by Tesla's interiors. US makers have never successfully addressed the fundamental differences in taste and stylistic demands of the European market. Unless they undertake a radical change of design philosophy - which of course may alienate their US/traditional customer base - or make a serious step-change in tech that means people would be prepared to overlook certain aspects - then I think that once we can access European offerings conceived to European tastes Tesla will find it a lot, lot harder.
This is spot on in my view. I am not a Tesla hater but I do think they miss the mark with their designs for the European market (a few evangelists excepted). One of my friends who currently drives a Model S is switching out to a Panamera when it comes time to change because he misses the traditional quality of a European manufactured vehicle and wants a more "traditional" interior. I will acknowledge that he loves the drive train of the Tesla but thinks the quality is dogshit having had it back to the dealer for numerous problems. That being said there are a fair few members here who have had not insubstantial problems with their Macans :o

Once mainstream manufacturers get their act together with the whole EV offering and Joe Public has real choice I think the landscape could be very different for Tesla. Only time will tell.
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Wing Commander
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Post by Wing Commander »

Dandock wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 6:20 pm
Wing Commander wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 6:08 pm One thing is certain, Mike. The next few years will be an interesting period for those of us who like to follow automotive developments. :geek: :)
Ah, the voice of diplomacy. 😂
Indeed, Mike! ;)

Don't like to see forum members falling out over such things! :P
Simon

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Dandock
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Post by Dandock »

Wing Commander wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 6:35 pm
Dandock wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 6:20 pm
Wing Commander wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 6:08 pm One thing is certain, Mike. The next few years will be an interesting period for those of us who like to follow automotive developments. :geek: :)
Ah, the voice of diplomacy. 😂
Indeed, Mike! ;)

Don't like to see forum members falling out over such things! :P
Just friendly, if rather partisan, banter, Simon. 😉
VG Petrol S http://www.porsche-code.com/PHIVCQU7           And a GT3 RS... by Lego! Not crash-tested! 😀
Dandock
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Post by Dandock »

VanB wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 6:25 pm
Dandock wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 5:54 pm
Wing Commander wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 5:37 pm It is a good thing that in a few years' time, prospective buyers will have a decent choice of EV provider including Porsche, Audi, Jaguar and Tesla. :)
Currently they're operating in a vacuum and good competition can only be a good driver. I'm still, though, not convinced by Tesla's interiors. US makers have never successfully addressed the fundamental differences in taste and stylistic demands of the European market. Unless they undertake a radical change of design philosophy - which of course may alienate their US/traditional customer base - or make a serious step-change in tech that means people would be prepared to overlook certain aspects - then I think that once we can access European offerings conceived to European tastes Tesla will find it a lot, lot harder.
This is spot on in my view. I am not a Tesla hater but I do think they miss the mark with their designs for the European market (a few evangelists excepted). One of my friends who currently drives a Model S is switching out to a Panamera when it comes time to change because he misses the traditional quality of a European manufactured vehicle and wants a more "traditional" interior. I will acknowledge that he loves the drive train of the Tesla but thinks the quality is dogshit having had it back to the dealer for numerous problems. That being said there are a fair few members here who have had not insubstantial problems with their Macans :o

Once mainstream manufacturers get their act together with the whole EV offering and Joe Public has real choice I think the landscape could be very different for Tesla. Only time will tell.
In terms of interiors - dash - once again I think Audi are leading the way.
VG Petrol S http://www.porsche-code.com/PHIVCQU7           And a GT3 RS... by Lego! Not crash-tested! 😀
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Post by Wing Commander »

Dandock wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 6:55 pm
Wing Commander wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 6:35 pm
Dandock wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 6:20 pm Ah, the voice of diplomacy. 😂
Indeed, Mike! ;). Don't like to see forum members falling out over such things! :P
Just friendly, if rather partisan, banter, Simon. 😉
I agree, Mike :)
Simon

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johnd
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Post by johnd »

Dandock wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 6:57 pm In terms of interiors - dash - once again I think Audi are leading the way.
What, the iPad glued to the dash you mean? That illustration of such a total lack of taste (IMO of course) is precisely why I won't consider any Audi that uses that particular dash format. That, along with their unbelievably staid approach to SUV styling, is why I'm not venturing near any Audi showroom for my Macan replacement. All such a shame because otherwise I'm in tune with their brand values, engineering expertise etc. But they do need first to get shot of their present design team.
Last edited by johnd on Tue May 15, 2018 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Deleted User 1874 »

Dandock wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 5:54 pm Currently they're operating in a vacuum and good competition can only be a good driver. I'm still, though, not convinced by Tesla's interiors. US makers have never successfully addressed the fundamental differences in taste and stylistic demands of the European market. Unless they undertake a radical change of design philosophy - which of course may alienate their US/traditional customer base - or make a serious step-change in tech that means people would be prepared to overlook certain aspects - then I think that once we can access European offerings conceived to European tastes Tesla will find it a lot, lot harder.
If I didn't know and had to guess which country my Tesla interior came from, I'd say Sweden or Norway. It has literally nothing in common with anything else I've ever seen from the US market, but then again Tesla has nothing whatsoever to do with the traditional US car industry. Having said that, there are some trim options that are obviously aimed at US taste and I don't like those at all. There's one particular wood trim that I hate. But the interior in mine has a very Scandi feel to it.

I dunno, maybe I'm just not that in love with current Audi interiors or Porsche for that matter. I've never bought a 911 for it's interior ergonomics, that's for sure!
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Post by Deleted User 1874 »

johnd wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 7:26 pm
Dandock wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 6:57 pm In terms of interiors - dash - once again I think Audi are leading the way.
What, the iPad glued to the dash you mean? That illustration of such a total lack of taste (IMO of course) is precisely why I won't consider any Audi that uses that particular dash format. That, along with their unbelievably staid approach to SUV styling, is why I'm not venturing near any Audi showroom for my Macan replacement. All such a shame because otherwise I can tune in to their brand values, engineering expertise etc. But they do need first to get shot of their present design team.
I agree. The Tesla has a massive screen too of course, but it sits below the top of the dash so doesn't actually distract you while driving. The Audi and Merc iPads are literally blocking your view out of the windscreen! Also agree with Audi's totally uninspired SUV styling. Didn't even consider a Q7 and my wife hates them anyway!
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Post by Deleted User 1874 »

Dandock wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 5:32 pm
Peteski wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 4:41 pm
Dandock wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 3:26 pm And now we have a Model 3 AWD and a Performance variant - deposits being taken! Production to begin, allegedly, in July for deliver in 12-18 months. More Ponsi stuff?

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/111 ... -this-week

And yet more promises of things to come with Air Suspension - but not til next year! This was originally promised 3-6 months after production began!

I know they've broken new ground with the S and T, driven the market and inspired competition which can only be healthy, but they cannot come anything like close to fulfilling current orders for the 3 so why should we believe this stuff?

And would the world tolerate it from anyone else?
Nobody takes Tesla timescales seriously anymore, but they usually get there before everyone else. It's not like any other manufacturer has even sold a single directly competing EV yet, with some 300,000 Model S and X now on the road. What I see are two extremes i.e. Tesla pushing themselves to the limit to get future cars into production and the rest dragging their arses along the ground for years with their promised "Tesla killers". Jaguar are not exactly planning to sell millions of iPace and neither are Porsche with their Mission-E (how long do you reckon I'd be waiting for one of those?)
But its a very strange way to do business. Perhaps they should relocate to Hamelin. ;)

Notwithstanding offerings from China which i'm sure will not be to Euro tastes Audi look like the ones to watch and as it stands Porsche appear on target for their initial offering. Add the tech-sharing of that part of the VW group and I think it will produce some interesting stuff that, albeit late to Tesla's market, will prove more that good competition; which all I'm sure we all agree is ultimately to everyone's benefit.
Yeah it's a strange business, but it's got them ahead of everyone else in the EV market. Tesla are setting the benchmark, which in itself is quite remarkable. But anyway I agree that serious competition will benefit us all. Of the Euro manufacturers I'm not yet convinced that VAG are fully committed to EVs in the same way that say Volvo appear to be. But we'll see who really is serious in the next 5 years.
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