..remember the early Cayennes......
Tesla Model 3 sales
..remember the early Cayennes......
1st Sapphire SD
2nd Sapphire GTS
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4296
Current 992 S Cab
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=9845&p=196465#p196465
2nd Sapphire GTS
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4296
Current 992 S Cab
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=9845&p=196465#p196465
I thought the X looked better than the Cayenne (new or old) or any of the other big SUVs on the market. Again totally subjective of course, but I've never been a huge fan of Porsche SUV styling, although the Macan is better looking than its big brother. But it's starting to look dated to me now and I've seen a load of the new Cayennes recently around Silverstone and I'm not impressed at all. The original Panamera was a total dog to look at too, although the current iteration is a huge improvement - even my wife commented on that! But I think the Model S is better resolved externally in my opinion. Looks like an Aston DB9, which is hardly surprising given the original Model S concept was designed by Henrik Fisker.
Peterski
You should guess by now you flogging a dead horse.
Despite you numerous posts extolling the virtues of Tesla's, I don't think you've actually managed to convince anyone they are a great as you believe. At least not at the current price they sell for.
You should guess by now you flogging a dead horse.
Despite you numerous posts extolling the virtues of Tesla's, I don't think you've actually managed to convince anyone they are a great as you believe. At least not at the current price they sell for.
Well said Macananon.Macananon wrote: ↑Fri May 25, 2018 8:44 pm Peterski
You should guess by now you flogging a dead horse.
Despite you numerous posts extolling the virtues of Tesla's, I don't think you've actually managed to convince anyone they are a great as you believe. At least not at the current price they sell for.
Tesla really does not appeal to me aesthetically. The S and X are way too big for European roads; they're too expensive for what they are and the 3 is just ugly with a truly awful exterior appearance.
The mega iPad is gross.
If you're not a car enthusiast and treat a car like a fridge purchase, design wise, and you've got money to burn... buy one.
Steve
2020 GTS in Sapphire Blue
(sold) 2017 SD in Rhodium Silver
2020 GTS in Sapphire Blue
(sold) 2017 SD in Rhodium Silver
+1
Innovative Tesla may be but they are hardly a premium marque.
Innovative Tesla may be but they are hardly a premium marque.
Col
Macan Turbo
Air, 20” wheels, ACC, Pano, SurCam, 14w, LEDs, PS+, Int Light Pack, Heated seats and Steering, spare wheel, SC, Privacy glass, PDK gear, SD mirrors, Met Black, rear airbags
Macan Turbo
Air, 20” wheels, ACC, Pano, SurCam, 14w, LEDs, PS+, Int Light Pack, Heated seats and Steering, spare wheel, SC, Privacy glass, PDK gear, SD mirrors, Met Black, rear airbags
Well, I don’t think Peteski is trying to persuade us non-believers or justify his own choice. Rather, he makes many valid point for (and against, to his credit) electric vehicles, giving constructive arguments on both sides.
I think the big arguments currently against EV currently are cost (overcome in part by Tesla with attractive, subsidised intererest rates and underwritten, subsidised residual values) and the lack of charge points outside the home / work - if you have the luxury of a drive / garage.
There is no doubt that I shall own an EV; just not in the next 5 - 10 years until their practicality matches ICE for my own, particular usage.
I think the big arguments currently against EV currently are cost (overcome in part by Tesla with attractive, subsidised intererest rates and underwritten, subsidised residual values) and the lack of charge points outside the home / work - if you have the luxury of a drive / garage.
There is no doubt that I shall own an EV; just not in the next 5 - 10 years until their practicality matches ICE for my own, particular usage.
1st Sapphire SD
2nd Sapphire GTS
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4296
Current 992 S Cab
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=9845&p=196465#p196465
2nd Sapphire GTS
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4296
Current 992 S Cab
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=9845&p=196465#p196465
My 2 cents.Peteski wrote: ↑Fri May 25, 2018 4:48 pmThe concept is "getting on a bit"! Seriously? Where does that leave a current BMW 3 series? What about all the other concept EVs that have been in development for years with not one single production car to show for it? Seems like nonsense talk to me. The Model 3 is going to sell in whatever numbers they can churn them out over its lifetime. If that ends up being 5K cars per week (which is very conservative in the medium term) then they will sell at least 750,000 plus by 2021 still with probably minimal direct competition. They could easily double that figure if things go to according to plan. Model Y will be interesting too as that will overlap into Model 3 sales quite a bit.
"What about all the other concept EVs that have been in development with no single production car"?? I believe that is smarter than Tesla has been rushing out the model 3. The problem with a Ponzi scheme is you need to continue to take cash in to make it work. As long as the cash flows, you can also deal with complaints / compensation stemming from the rushed out product. I'd rather buy a well developed VW derived car than a Tesla. Years of experience getting reliable cars to market through years of real production experience.
"The model 3 is going to sell in any number they can churn out over its lifetime" Not until the majority of the car buying public wants to have an EV or is forced into one. Again, smart move by the well established car brands not to burn through tons of cash trying to rush to market. The only time this will work (I believe) is with Govt incentives. The Dutch however saw the sale of electric cars drop off a cliff the moment the incentives ceased.
"If that ends up being 5K cars per week (which is very conservative in the medium term) then they will sell at least 750,000 plus by 2021 still with probably minimal direct competition." Not unless the majority of the car buying public is forced into EVs. The reality is that EV doesn't work for the majority of drivers. Either because of their driving pattern or because of constraints in the required infrastructure for these individuals. The USA / Canada aren’t made up of cities. The vast amount of countryside would require massive investment to make these predominantly rural communities able to drive. Electric isn't going to work in the majority of cases.
Whatever Tesla has in development and wants to bring to market can only be supported by the real sale of cars i.e. cashflow, not hype.
Deposit paid 14/12/13 - Picked up on 14/03/15.PF9FZLV2
GTS: PHVVUV96 Picked up on 16/06/16
Cayman GTS on order - due for delivery Nov '18
GTS: PHVVUV96 Picked up on 16/06/16
Cayman GTS on order - due for delivery Nov '18
I prefer the new Cayenne with deviated stitching, obviouslyPeteski wrote: ↑Fri May 25, 2018 5:33 pm I thought the X looked better than the Cayenne (new or old) or any of the other big SUVs on the market. Again totally subjective of course, but I've never been a huge fan of Porsche SUV styling, although the Macan is better looking than its big brother. But it's starting to look dated to me now and I've seen a load of the new Cayennes recently around Silverstone and I'm not impressed at all. The original Panamera was a total dog to look at too, although the current iteration is a huge improvement - even my wife commented on that! But I think the Model S is better resolved externally in my opinion. Looks like an Aston DB9, which is hardly surprising given the original Model S concept was designed by Henrik Fisker.
Taycan Turbo S
http://www.porsche-code.com/PMPMJ963
Litchfield tuned Porsche Carrera 4 GTS (991.2)
Sold in Jan 2019 - Cayenne Turbo (E3)
Sold in 2018 - Macan Turbo (15):
http://www.porsche-code.com/PMPMJ963
Litchfield tuned Porsche Carrera 4 GTS (991.2)
Sold in Jan 2019 - Cayenne Turbo (E3)
Sold in 2018 - Macan Turbo (15):
As you well know all products have a life cycle; most, though, have actually been developed, tried and tested before going to market - and with all the spy media coverage their image is beginning to age even before launch. The truth is that Musk is struggling to bring the product successfully to market and is continually hedging and laying treacle fields. The latest of these are the AWD and the performance version, both of which he is promising delivery of before existing base level orders ‘because they make money. That’s like being left at the alter. And whilst all this is happening Tesla are approaching their 200,000 unit ceiling after which the $7500 subsidy is withdrawn which will undoubtedly result in cancelled orders. Not good for credibility or cash flow. Your premise is based on the endless forgiving nature of the fan base. In all honesty how forgiving would you be if your order kept getting bounced and how long would you be prepared to wait?Peteski wrote: ↑Fri May 25, 2018 4:48 pmThe concept is "getting on a bit"! Seriously? Where does that leave a current BMW 3 series? What about all the other concept EVs that have been in development for years with not one single production car to show for it? Seems like nonsense talk to me. The Model 3 is going to sell in whatever numbers they can churn them out over its lifetime. If that ends up being 5K cars per week (which is very conservative in the medium term) then they will sell at least 750,000 plus by 2021 still with probably minimal direct competition. They could easily double that figure if things go to according to plan. Model Y will be interesting too as that will overlap into Model 3 sales quite a bit.
VG Petrol S http://www.porsche-code.com/PHIVCQU7 And a GT3 RS... by Lego! Not crash-tested!
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