Jaguar I-Pace

[Rab J]

Just back from a few days in Marbella and was interested to see a couple of Tesla chargers just outside the hotel front door. Never once saw a Tesla charging but the spaces were nearly always filled with three ordinary cars. Nothings perfect it seems.

[Deleted User 1874]

Just back from a few days in Marbella and was interested to see a couple of Tesla chargers just outside the hotel front door. Never once saw a Tesla charging but the spaces were nearly always filled with three ordinary cars. Nothings perfect it seems.

That's right. Same sort of twats who park in mother & baby and/or disabled spaces right outside the supermarket door for their own convenience. Can't say I've had a problem yet personally, but one pub I often use has its Tesla chargers roped off to make it a bit more obvious for anyone who might not notice the bright red signage. Some Tesla destination chargers (not including Superchargers) are available for use by other EVs too, it just depends how many are installed and the agreement with the land owner.

[Deleted User 1874]

To complete the picture and, sort of by chance (I think Bjorn is going through an intensive I-Pace period), there's another video just added which looks at range @90km/h, ie more representative of consumption on non-motorway type roads, which gives a range of 230+ miles. So the true range picture seems to have a spread of 170-230 miles depending on road type, weather conditions etc.

As with all cars, consumption is a huge variable depending on weather, speed, roads, congestion etc. I see anything from 130 - 200+ mile range depending on what I'm doing and time of year. The good thing is that longer continuous journeys tend to give better consumption figures than short stop-start driving. Much like you see with ICE cars. I can easily average 500 Wh/mile on a short local blast and yet get well under 350 Wh/mile in the same weather conditions on a longer steady journey without compromising on speed or acceleration. If I get slowed by traffic along the way, the average consumption falls even lower - which is often the opposite of what you see with a conventional car in traffic jams.

[jesim1]

I've been looking at E cars in general lately and am still underwhelmed by the price Vs practicality and range. I've already had my say on the Ipace, but yesterday I took a Tesla X out for a spin to compare it. The Tesla was nicer than the Ipace overall in my estimation, but as soon as I got on a motorway I knew I could not live with it - I was not even over 70 when I realised I was shouting to my wife, and by the time I was close to 80 it was a horrible place to be, I was desperate to get back to my Macan for a bit of piece and quiet. Overall I liked the look of the model X, and a lot of it's functionality, but it was way too big for what I want. The whole Tesla charging system was pretty good though, far better than the Ipace using other chargers, I could not be doing with that along with double the time for a charge in most cases.

Speaking to the salesman he also confirmed what I had surmised, that the Tesla mileage was fairly accurate to real life, but the Ipace was optimistic by 20/30%, so a 75kwh battery in the Tesla is probably going to give you more than the 90kwh battery in the Ipace - pretty poor for Jag I'd say, and well done Tesla for at least not lying to us about it.

Next week I'll get my hands on the S as it was that one I should have had this week, but the salesman thought he would get me the X as I had an SUV already - even though it's not what I asked for? Who hires these guys?

James

[Macananon]

Was it tyre roar you could here or something else?

[johnd]

Speaking to the salesman he also confirmed what I had surmised, that the Tesla mileage was fairly accurate to real life, but the I-pace was optimistic by 20/30%, so a 75kwh battery in the Tesla is probably going to give you more than the 90kwh battery in the Ipace - pretty poor for Jag I'd say, and well done Tesla for at least not lying to us about it.

Not sure that I'd believe every line that a Tesla salesman tries to spin about I-Pace. I think it's generally accepted that I-Pace is maybe 10-15% less efficient (but not 20-30%) than some competitors, partly because the drive-train is not as yet fully optimised and maybe partly because the aerodynamics of the I-Pace are less good (probably because of the insistence of the powers that be at JLR that I-Pace should retain the brand identity of the over-sized radiator grille, which I-Pace does not need and which does it absolutely no favours re CdA).

But the drive-train differences are probably not too surprising given that Tesla is now rumoured to have accumulated something like 9 billion miles' worth of driving data from which to optimise its systems, while JLR have only a tiny tiny fraction of that. It is apparently a priority for JLR engineers to tweak the efficiency further and a firmware update is expected by the year-end which should improve efficiency by several % points. But yes it's probably always going to be the case that a comparable Tesla will be 5-10% better in energy efficiency than I-Pace, at least until JLR manage to do something more about the aerodynamics eg in a future facelift model.

I'm not sure how much more it's worth debating range/charging network. It seems to be widely accepted that for the majority of owners and provided you can charge at home (obviously a vital proviso that won't apply to all, but more so to premium car owners than others) then a range of 200+ miles is plenty for day to day driving. It's when you need to undertake longer trips that the charging speed and network obviously becomes more important. Some drivers will prefer ICE for this reason for years to come - that's obviously their choice. But for those are able and willing to entertain an EV then the Tesla vs I-Pace (vs Porsche, Audi etc) landscape will start changing fairly rapidly on at least 3 counts:

1. I-Pace is only temporarily constrained in charging rate. Rumours suggest that it's designed to allow 120kW charging, maybe more, and the initial restriction will be lifted fairly soon. There are arguments that going too much beyond 120kW doesn't actually help journey times.

2. The shape of the charging curve for I-Pace seems to be different from some other EVs, such that it can accept charge more quickly in the 50-90% SoC band when charging on many EVs starts to slow down markedly (ie charging is not linear with time). End result is that I-Pace charges more quickly for a given size of charger.

3. I-Pace is currently on ca 6 months delivery for new orders apparently. And given that it might be 2-3 months post-delivery when a new owner first uses it for a long trip then it's the state of the charging network in mid-2019 on that's important, not where we are right now. And as new EVs from Porsche, Mercedes, Audi etc etc start to be sold in much greater numbers, the state of the CCS charging network, including from newer names like Ionity, is likely to increase quite rapidly. Additionally, there doesn't seem to be any great barrier to building new charging stations - anywhere that has a supply that could accommodate eg a significant block of flats or offices could also accommodate an EV charging site.

Doubters might need to be looking and thinking not far, but maybe just a year or two into the future.

[Col Lamb]

I've been looking at E cars in general lately and am still underwhelmed by the price Vs practicality and range. I've already had my say on the Ipace, but yesterday I took a Tesla X out for a spin to compare it.
.
The Tesla was nicer than the Ipace overall in my estimation, but as soon as I got on a motorway I knew I could not live with it - I was not even over 70 when I realised I was shouting to my wife, and by the time I was close to 80 it was a horrible place to be,
.
I was desperate to get back to my Macan for a bit of piece and quiet. Overall I liked the look of the model X, and a lot of it's functionality, but it was way too big for what I want. The whole Tesla charging system was pretty good though, far better than the Ipace using other chargers, I could not be doing with that along with double the time for a charge in most cases.

Speaking to the salesman he also confirmed what I had surmised, that the Tesla mileage was fairly accurate to real life, but the Ipace was optimistic by 20/30%, so a 75kwh battery in the Tesla is probably going to give you more than the 90kwh battery in the Ipace - pretty poor for Jag I'd say, and well done Tesla for at least not lying to us about it.

Next week I'll get my hands on the S as it was that one I should have had this week, but the salesman thought he would get me the X as I had an SUV already - even though it's not what I asked for? Who hires these guys?

James

The high level of noise within the Tesla X is very disconcerting.

As a Tesla X owner I wonder what does Peterski have to say about the subject?

[steve w]

Reading all these reports on the I:Pace it clear that a lot of interest is being shown,I subscribe to Autoexpress magazine and it seems that whatever JLR make it’s the the best thing since sliced bread and whatever road tests or comparisons they do the JLR product nearly always wins,the I:Pace is Autoexpress car of the year yet it’s only recently arrived on the market,personally I can see the I:Pace being developed and improved for some time to come and if previous new products from JLR have anything to be judged on I wouldn’t touch one with a barge pole well not at least until it’s been in production for a couple of years and any issues have been sorted which I’m sure there will be.
SteveW

[Deleted User 1874]

I've been looking at E cars in general lately and am still underwhelmed by the price Vs practicality and range. I've already had my say on the Ipace, but yesterday I took a Tesla X out for a spin to compare it.
.
The Tesla was nicer than the Ipace overall in my estimation, but as soon as I got on a motorway I knew I could not live with it - I was not even over 70 when I realised I was shouting to my wife, and by the time I was close to 80 it was a horrible place to be,
.
I was desperate to get back to my Macan for a bit of piece and quiet. Overall I liked the look of the model X, and a lot of it's functionality, but it was way too big for what I want. The whole Tesla charging system was pretty good though, far better than the Ipace using other chargers, I could not be doing with that along with double the time for a charge in most cases.

Speaking to the salesman he also confirmed what I had surmised, that the Tesla mileage was fairly accurate to real life, but the Ipace was optimistic by 20/30%, so a 75kwh battery in the Tesla is probably going to give you more than the 90kwh battery in the Ipace - pretty poor for Jag I'd say, and well done Tesla for at least not lying to us about it.

Next week I'll get my hands on the S as it was that one I should have had this week, but the salesman thought he would get me the X as I had an SUV already - even though it's not what I asked for? Who hires these guys?

James

The high level of noise within the Tesla X is very disconcerting.

As a Tesla X owner I wonder what does Peterski have to say about the subject?

I would bet it was on 22" bling wheels and maybe one of those very noisy concrete roads? Honestly ours is very quiet up to 80 mph on the standard 20" wheels and reasonably fresh tarmac. Above 80 mph there is notable wind noise and tyre noise, but not really any more than what you would expect in a Porsche SUV. Maybe there is a little less sound deadening than average for the class, but the lack of engine drone more than makes up for it. I think the reviewer on Autogefuhl summed it up quite well in his 1 hour detailed video i.e. road/wind noise was no issue up to around 85 mph, but was above average at full-on 3-figure Autobahn speeds (his car was also on 22" wheels, so worst case too). The latest Michelin tyres fitted on the 20" rims are designed specifically to be quiet, so I'll bet that's a big factor here. Cabin noise is certainly not a problem for us, it's a very relaxing car to cruise around in, whether in town or out on the open road. The ride is on the firm side of acceptable and can get a little crashy over potholes at low speed, certainly no match for a Range Rover in that respect, but then it handles much better and smooths out nicely above 50 mph.

What Car? recently measured cabin noise levels in a Model S vs iPace and found the Tesla quieter. Can't remember the numbers, but I was a little surprised at the result. I've heard people subjectively say the S is a little quieter than the X, but not seen any objective proof. Maybe it has less wind noise at speed and it's on slightly smaller wheels too, although I think the same profile.

Edit: Just to add that on the Model X forum there are some people who complain about excessive cabin noise and others who don't have any problems at all. I can only imagine it's down to wheel size, OEM tyre fitment and perhaps their local road surfaces. When out and about we all know how certain road surfaces are exceptionally noisy, while others are whisper quiet. Those old concrete motorway surfaces for example are massively noisy in pretty much any car. Obviously you notice any wind/road noise more in an EV, in fact any sort of noise at all, but that's what sound systems are for!

[jesim1]

I would bet it was on 22" bling wheels and maybe one of those very noisy concrete roads? Honestly ours is very quiet up to 80 mph on the standard 20" wheels and reasonably fresh tarmac. Above 80 mph there is notable wind noise and tyre noise, but not really any more than what you would expect in a Porsche SUV.

Without trying to cause a rumpus, it was on 20" standard wheels with Michelin Latitude tyres and the road/wind noise was terrible between J23 and J26 of the M6 - smooth motorway for about 5/7 miles

Perhaps I had a bad one? but I'll call it as I see it - and in this case the car I was driving was considerably noisier than any other car I have been in recent years, that's how loud it was. It's of no real concern to me though as the X is way too large for what I want. Next week I'll get to try the model S, so I have higher hopes for that, but looking at the overall picture so far for EVs I can see myself keeping the Macan for now, especially as I had a look round Porsche Wilmslow and found myself liking the very car I had arrived in - my own Macan The new Macan is too similar, and the Cyenne too big, so I'd be going to a car less suitable than what I have.

James