BBC News Item re Self Driving Cars

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Peteski
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Re: BBC News Item re Self Driving Cars

Post by Peteski » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:54 pm

goron59 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:14 pm
The Tesla problem has always been that Musk uses combatitive language to promote a feature or product and then lets the frothy fanbase do all the marketing. As such, "autopilot' has long been seen by the many to be just that, an autopilot.

Tesla needs to work much much harder to educate their customers and potential customers about the reality of the various autonomy features. Ultimately, it's just a fancy cruise control with auto braking, auto steer, overtake assist, park assist. Good though it is, it's not a self-driving car.

I can't see Tesla bowing to the pressure to be more responsible about it though. Too much money changing hands between the decision makers. It'll need proof of criminal neglect, I suspect, for any real change to happen.
I totally agree, but not very many people get as far as actually using Autopilot without realising it isn't a fully self-drive system. I'm sure many non-Tesla owners think that it is fully self driving because of Musk's lofty ambitions and general media BS, but one quick test drive is enough to show what it actually does. The user manual is pretty clear too, as are the dash warnings. You really do have to be a complete fool to think you can let it self-drive and of course there is always going to be a few of those around as we have seen.

More pre-sales education would be a good thing for sure, but I think it would be a huge exaggeration to say that many Tesla owners think they have a self-driving car, as that is certainly not the case. The vast majority of Tesla owners know how to use the system safely, otherwise they would be crashing far more often than they do.


goron59
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Re: BBC News Item re Self Driving Cars

Post by goron59 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:57 pm

I can't remember from last time I took out a Model S, but does it stop for red lights, pedestrians on zebra crossings etc? Something I think Audi and Volvo does with their systems, and Porsche very much doesn't. Being the first at a set of lights is always a pain because you have to stop the car manually!


Peteski
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Re: BBC News Item re Self Driving Cars

Post by Peteski » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:22 pm

goron59 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:57 pm
I can't remember from last time I took out a Model S, but does it stop for red lights, pedestrians on zebra crossings etc? Something I think Audi and Volvo does with their systems, and Porsche very much doesn't. Being the first at a set of lights is always a pain because you have to stop the car manually!
No it doesn't stop for red lights. Peds I think it does if they are standing in the road, but haven't tested that! Interestingly Tesla AEB only slows rapidly by 25 mph and then expects you to have hit the brakes by then, it doesn't actually brake to a full stop in an emergency. But it does brake to a stop when driving normally in adaptive cruise. Autopilot and AEB are two different systems.

I did drive the latest Volvo system and wasn't at all impressed with the steering assist. It was more like a drunk driver, but perhaps they've improved it since last year? They certainly needed to!


goron59
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Re: BBC News Item re Self Driving Cars

Post by goron59 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:38 pm

OK thanks. Have to say, the steer assist in the Volvo was the first thing I turned off. Almost as bad as the Porsche version in the Macan. You could never tell if you were straying out of lane, or in a rut, or whatever. De-specced it for Macan №2 and just rely on the frog occasionally when in very long and boring contraflow, along with ACC.


Col Lamb
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Re: BBC News Item re Self Driving Cars

Post by Col Lamb » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:15 pm

I would be surprized if a Tesla did stop at a Red light as in the USA you can turn right on a Red if it is safe to do so and lets face it any Tesla is marketed first for their home market.
Col
Macan Turbo, Met Blk, Spyders, Air, ACC, Pano, Garnet, SurCam, 14w, LEDs, PS+, Int Light Pack, Heated seats and Steering, SC, Privacy glass, PDK gear, SD mirrors, Spare Wheel plus a few other goodies.
Prior Macan SD similar spec to Turbo


Peteski
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Re: BBC News Item re Self Driving Cars

Post by Peteski » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:05 pm

Col Lamb wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:15 pm
I would be surprized if a Tesla did stop at a Red light as in the USA you can turn right on a Red if it is safe to do so and lets face it any Tesla is marketed first for their home market.
It's nothing to do with their home market. Stop light recognition was never part of the current system, but it is part of their full-self-drive upgrade (which doesn't yet exist). It would be trivial to implement a red light override for a vehicle turning right as part of a satnav route or if it was manually signalling to turn right. I haven't seen any evidence of US-centric marketing and in fact the yanks often complain that us Europeans get the best software with premium Spotify etc. The US is roughly half their total world market, although growing rapidly in Europe. Porsche are as much influenced by the US market and China these days too. The UK is certainly not their main focus!


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Dandock
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Re: BBC News Item re Self Driving Cars

Post by Dandock » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:20 pm

Peteski wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:54 pm
goron59 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:14 pm
The Tesla problem has always been that Musk uses combatitive language to promote a feature or product and then lets the frothy fanbase do all the marketing. As such, "autopilot' has long been seen by the many to be just that, an autopilot.

Tesla needs to work much much harder to educate their customers and potential customers about the reality of the various autonomy features. Ultimately, it's just a fancy cruise control with auto braking, auto steer, overtake assist, park assist. Good though it is, it's not a self-driving car.

I can't see Tesla bowing to the pressure to be more responsible about it though. Too much money changing hands between the decision makers. It'll need proof of criminal neglect, I suspect, for any real change to happen.
I'm sure many non-Tesla owners think that it is fully self driving because of Musk's lofty ambitions...
And this, I think, is the essence of the issue! Give ‘em an inch...!

I actually think that one of Musk’s main goals - and profit centres - is, like Google’s, self driving cabs. It’s certainly a race that he would very much like or indeed needs to win. But is he using the open market to fully develop the tech rather than Google’s more discreet policy?
VG Petrol S http://www.porsche-code.com/PHIVCQU7           And a GT3 RS... by Lego! Not crash-tested! 😀


Peteski
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Re: BBC News Item re Self Driving Cars

Post by Peteski » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:26 pm

Dandock wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:20 pm
Peteski wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:54 pm
goron59 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:14 pm
The Tesla problem has always been that Musk uses combatitive language to promote a feature or product and then lets the frothy fanbase do all the marketing. As such, "autopilot' has long been seen by the many to be just that, an autopilot.

Tesla needs to work much much harder to educate their customers and potential customers about the reality of the various autonomy features. Ultimately, it's just a fancy cruise control with auto braking, auto steer, overtake assist, park assist. Good though it is, it's not a self-driving car.

I can't see Tesla bowing to the pressure to be more responsible about it though. Too much money changing hands between the decision makers. It'll need proof of criminal neglect, I suspect, for any real change to happen.
I'm sure many non-Tesla owners think that it is fully self driving because of Musk's lofty ambitions...
And this, I think, is the essence of the issue! Give ‘em an inch...!

I actually think that one of Musk’s main goals - and profit centres - is, like Google’s, self driving cabs. It’s certainly a race that he would very much like or indeed needs to win. But is he using the open market to fully develop the tech rather than Google’s more discreet policy?
No doubt Musk is big on automated driving, but I think he has underestimated the problems in bringing it to market. Tesla's full self-drive system is way behind schedule, while extended Autopilot is still very much a work in progress. It is however still considerably better than many other comparable systems on the market. The Volvo steering assist is nowhere near as good and the Merc system is a joke. I haven't tried the VAG or BMW offerings so can't comment on those.


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