EV charging - it beggars belief.

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SAC1
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Re: EV charging - it beggars belief.

Post by SAC1 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:08 pm

40 mins or 60 mins to refill the car to 80%.... I'm sure he enjoyed the charms of the Motorway Service Station during all that long time. Especially watching all those ICE cars refilling to 100% in under 5 minutes. :) :o ;)


Col Lamb
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Re: EV charging - it beggars belief.

Post by Col Lamb » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:27 pm

SAC1 wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:08 pm
40 mins or 60 mins to refill the car to 80%.... I'm sure he enjoyed the charms of the Motorway Service Station during all that long time. Especially watching all those ICE cars refilling to 100% in under 5 minutes. :) :o ;)
I suppose those with an EV are smiling at those of us stupid enough to pay Motorway Service Station prices to fill up, at what £90 for a full tank, when they spend probably £10 max for a charge or £0 in the case of a Tesla.
Col
Macan Turbo, Met Blk, Spyders, Air, ACC, Pano, Garnet, SurCam, 14w, LEDs, PS+, Int Light Pack, Heated seats and Steering, SC, Privacy glass, PDK gear, SD mirrors, Spare Wheel plus a few other goodies.
Prior Macan SD similar spec to Turbo


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Bigboyrolo
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Re: EV charging - it beggars belief.

Post by Bigboyrolo » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:32 pm

Current EV's, and some Tesla models are not suited to long distance travel because non-Tesla charge points are unreliable, short in numbers and there may be a queue. If you're right out of battery and get to a public point, it must be aggravating to hang about while you charge, for someone else to finish or even worse the thing is out of order or vandalised. If you can rely on home charging, then owning an EV is fine.
I have a Panamera Hybrid, a Gen 1 Facelift and at best it shows 13 mile range fully charged (Original claims were 20/22!) which takes 4/5 hrs, mostly from my solar panels. If I have to use the car with a nil or low charge, no problem. I'm averaging 30+ mpg and am a convert to Hybrid. A Porsche Hybrid is a technical marvel, if there is ever a Macan Hybrid, I'll probably get one.
On pure EV, its not well known that Fiat produce a Fiat 500 EV in the USA, sold in California and ?Oregon? I think, due to the beneficial tax deductions on EVs. It has a little over 100 mile range, ideal for a city/town car but Fiat have no plans for European production. However there is a thriving trade of Europeans having used ones shipped to Europe, a great town car.
However humorous the 'Fully Charged' Youe Tube channel may be, they are rather over optimstic in their enthusiasm for all things EV.
I recently got to Folkestone Eurotunnel with 5 miles EV range, and crucially 398 petrol range, both (yes- just 2) non Tesla charge points were out of order.
Hybrid for me from now on.
"Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time" courtesy Pink Floyd.
2016 Panamera S e-Hybrid Met Black/Cream
S VG/Luxor, sold @ 1yr old/9700 miles March 18
SD Dark Blue/ Pebble, sold @ 1 yr old/16k miles Dec 16


Peteski
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Re: EV charging - it beggars belief.

Post by Peteski » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:54 am

Bigboyrolo wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:32 pm
Current EV's, and some Tesla models are not suited to long distance travel because non-Tesla charge points are unreliable, short in numbers and there may be a queue. If you're right out of battery and get to a public point, it must be aggravating to hang about while you charge, for someone else to finish or even worse the thing is out of order or vandalised. If you can rely on home charging, then owning an EV is fine.
I have a Panamera Hybrid, a Gen 1 Facelift and at best it shows 13 mile range fully charged (Original claims were 20/22!) which takes 4/5 hrs, mostly from my solar panels. If I have to use the car with a nil or low charge, no problem. I'm averaging 30+ mpg and am a convert to Hybrid. A Porsche Hybrid is a technical marvel, if there is ever a Macan Hybrid, I'll probably get one.
On pure EV, its not well known that Fiat produce a Fiat 500 EV in the USA, sold in California and ?Oregon? I think, due to the beneficial tax deductions on EVs. It has a little over 100 mile range, ideal for a city/town car but Fiat have no plans for European production. However there is a thriving trade of Europeans having used ones shipped to Europe, a great town car.
However humorous the 'Fully Charged' Youe Tube channel may be, they are rather over optimstic in their enthusiasm for all things EV.
I recently got to Folkestone Eurotunnel with 5 miles EV range, and crucially 398 petrol range, both (yes- just 2) non Tesla charge points were out of order.
Hybrid for me from now on.
I agree with most of this and it will be interesting to see how it pans out for iPace drivers looking to cover some distance in the next few years. Hybrids get over the range issue with most current EVs, but they are inefficient for long distance driving with their extremely limited EV range. PHEVs are at their best on short trips in and out of town where you can re-charge the battery at home or destination. A Tesla actually makes a great relaxed touring car and super efficient with the Supercharger network and 200+ mile range. A long trip needs a little pre-planning, but rarely is it a big hassle.


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Bigboyrolo
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Re: EV charging - it beggars belief.

Post by Bigboyrolo » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:37 am

Peteski wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:54 am

Hybrids get over the range issue with most current EVs, but they are inefficient for long distance driving with their extremely limited EV range. PHEVs are at their best on short trips in and out of town where you can re-charge the battery at home or destination. A Tesla actually makes a great relaxed touring car and super efficient with the Supercharger network and 200+ mile range. A long trip needs a little pre-planning, but rarely is it a big hassle.
Hi Peteski - Inefficient? Not at all. I'm not concerned with the limited electric range, on a long journey in a Porsche Hybrid, its easy to add range with the push of a button, almost negligible mpg penalty in my experience, plus the constant re-gen going on. I average well over 30 on a long run, pretty good for a 2ton+ vehicle, and I'm in a Porsche. Add in the £0 VED etc in a 400+bhp Porsche, and its a winner for me. I think I read that over 50% of all Gen2 Panameras sold in Europe are Hybrid, so the market is there.

I looked at a Tesla, but went for the Panamera, quite simply because of the brand, cockpit ambience and build quality. I prefer to be in my Panny for 1000 miles, personal preference, plus the lower cost of the vehicle.

I can't fault Tesla on ability and range though. This map is more or less the route we take to N Italy, so no real deviations required, lovely places to hang about for an hour or less, even two suitable places for a night stop we already know. When we cease long distance euro trips, a Tesla or iPace may well be on the driveway, EV is definitely the way forward.

Untitled.jpeg

"Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time" courtesy Pink Floyd.
2016 Panamera S e-Hybrid Met Black/Cream
S VG/Luxor, sold @ 1yr old/9700 miles March 18
SD Dark Blue/ Pebble, sold @ 1 yr old/16k miles Dec 16


Peteski
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Re: EV charging - it beggars belief.

Post by Peteski » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:23 pm

Bigboyrolo wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:37 am

Hi Peteski - Inefficient? Not at all. I'm not concerned with the limited electric range, on a long journey in a Porsche Hybrid, its easy to add range with the push of a button, almost negligible mpg penalty in my experience, plus the constant re-gen going on. I average well over 30 on a long run, pretty good for a 2ton+ vehicle, and I'm in a Porsche. Add in the £0 VED etc in a 400+bhp Porsche, and its a winner for me. I think I read that over 50% of all Gen2 Panameras sold in Europe are Hybrid, so the market is there.
I meant relatively inefficient. Using a petrol engine as a generator to charge a battery is much less efficient than charging the battery from grid electricity. Every time you convert energy from one form to another (in this case ICE to EV) there are losses in the conversion. Regen helps a little in stop/start traffic, but obviously not so much at constant speed on a long motorway haul. Basic physics would suggest that a pure ICE would actually be more efficient than an equivalent PHEV on a long motorway trip. Obviously a very different story on shorter trips in and around town where you get a reasonable amount of regeneration and can plug in every day.

We're actually thinking of getting a nice PHEV for my wife as she has a 3 mile commute and rarely does long trips. Was considering a used BMW i8 since they are now down to around £50K even with sub 20K miles! I expect it would be quite fun to drive and cost almost nothing to run on a daily basis. She has a diesel at the moment which doesn't even get warm on her commute and sounds like a delivery van. Wafting to work on electric power would be so much nicer.


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Bigboyrolo
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Re: EV charging - it beggars belief.

Post by Bigboyrolo » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:35 pm

Peteski wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:23 pm
Bigboyrolo wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:37 am

Hi Peteski - Inefficient? Not at all. I'm not concerned with the limited electric range, on a long journey in a Porsche Hybrid, its easy to add range with the push of a button, almost negligible mpg penalty in my experience, plus the constant re-gen going on. I average well over 30 on a long run, pretty good for a 2ton+ vehicle, and I'm in a Porsche. Add in the £0 VED etc in a 400+bhp Porsche, and its a winner for me. I think I read that over 50% of all Gen2 Panameras sold in Europe are Hybrid, so the market is there.
I meant relatively inefficient. Using a petrol engine as a generator to charge a battery is much less efficient than charging the battery from grid electricity. Every time you convert energy from one form to another (in this case ICE to EV) there are losses in the conversion. Regen helps a little in stop/start traffic, but obviously not so much at constant speed on a long motorway haul. Basic physics would suggest that a pure ICE would actually be more efficient than an equivalent PHEV on a long motorway trip. Obviously a very different story on shorter trips in and around town where you get a reasonable amount of regeneration and can plug in every day.

We're actually thinking of getting a nice PHEV for my wife as she has a 3 mile commute and rarely does long trips. Was considering a used BMW i8 since they are now down to around £50K even with sub 20K miles! I expect it would be quite fun to drive and cost almost nothing to run on a daily basis. She has a diesel at the moment which doesn't even get warm on her commute and sounds like a delivery van. Wafting to work on electric power would be so much nicer.
We're pretty much on the same page, I don't bother to get too technical, the practical aspect of my PHEV is very satisfying. It does lots of 20 mile trips, most of which is almost silent.
An i8 to commute will be very nice, my guess is it will be used much more than that, a lovely car.
"Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time" courtesy Pink Floyd.
2016 Panamera S e-Hybrid Met Black/Cream
S VG/Luxor, sold @ 1yr old/9700 miles March 18
SD Dark Blue/ Pebble, sold @ 1 yr old/16k miles Dec 16


Peteski
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Re: EV charging - it beggars belief.

Post by Peteski » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:09 am

Bigboyrolo wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:35 pm
We're pretty much on the same page, I don't bother to get too technical, the practical aspect of my PHEV is very satisfying. It does lots of 20 mile trips, most of which is almost silent.
An i8 to commute will be very nice, my guess is it will be used much more than that, a lovely car.
Sounds like you are really enjoying your hybrid Panamera. For sure that's what I would have gone for too if in the market for a Panamera. If we get an i8 it would be used for my wife's short commute and of course for fun trips out. I think it will be the end for our classic 911, which is too much like hard work for a short commute and not very practical or safe for a day trip out with the kids. I've hardly driven it since we had the kids, so probably time to find it a new home.


Macman
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Re: EV charging - it beggars belief.

Post by Macman » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:24 pm

Peteski wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:09 am
Bigboyrolo wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:35 pm
We're pretty much on the same page, I don't bother to get too technical, the practical aspect of my PHEV is very satisfying. It does lots of 20 mile trips, most of which is almost silent.
An i8 to commute will be very nice, my guess is it will be used much more than that, a lovely car.
Sounds like you are really enjoying your hybrid Panamera. For sure that's what I would have gone for too if in the market for a Panamera. If we get an i8 it would be used for my wife's short commute and of course for fun trips out. I think it will be the end for our classic 911, which is too much like hard work for a short commute and not very practical or safe for a day trip out with the kids. I've hardly driven it since we had the kids, so probably time to find it a new home.
I drove an i8 round Elivington race track last weekend, very fast, handles very well and even manages to sound good (important to me). However, getting into it requires a limbo dance past the scissor door and through a letter box opening. As an amply proportion 6’ 2” person of a certain age that would be an issue for me long term :oops: . So make sure you test drive one and get in and out a few times :lol:
Porsche history: 924 S, 944 S2, 996.2, 987.1, Macan S


Peteski
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Re: EV charging - it beggars belief.

Post by Peteski » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:21 pm

Macman wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:24 pm

I drove an i8 round Elivington race track last weekend, very fast, handles very well and even manages to sound good (important to me). However, getting into it requires a limbo dance past the scissor door and through a letter box opening. As an amply proportion 6’ 2” person of a certain age that would be an issue for me long term :oops: . So make sure you test drive one and get in and out a few times :lol:
Sounds cool and thanks for the info. I have sat in one at a motor show a month or so ago and know what you mean about access! Luckily I'm still flexible enough to get in/out easily and my wife definitely is! Doing it elegantly might take some practice though 8-)

Everyone I know who has driven the i8 says they are great to drive, makes you wonder why the depreciation is so high? I guess people are still cautious about first gen EVs, especially in high performance sports cars like this. But I'm not going to complain, just puts me off buying a new one. I see there are quite a few used ones in the £50-60K bracket in the BMW dealer network and even the odd one in the high £40K bracket. Now the "facelift" 2019 model is out and barely any different I wonder if prices will firm up? If I can pick one up for around £55K and keep it long term I expect it will be a good buy with probably some scope to upgrade the battery later on. Could even become a modern day classic!


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