Elon Musk in hot water again.

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VanB
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Post by VanB »

I am driving a Model S on a 400-mile round trip this weekend so it will be an interesting experience as 1) never driven a Tesla (or any other BEV for that matter) and 2) it will need to be recharged so will get a decent view on the practicality issue.

FWIW I don't think Tesla will fold as it is technologically at the cutting edge of the new automotive era but may well be acquired or propped up via a JV with the likes of Apple. Either way, I suspect that Musk's time at the helm is likely to come to an end. Time will tell
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Nosmo
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Post by Nosmo »

I love you evangelists. For the record, I've never commented on the long term future of cars including ICEs. I was under the impression that you need to make money to survive longer term in any business, however avantgarde / forward thinking / rich you are. My sole point is that unless you do so it goes pop.
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Post by Deleted User 1874 »

Nosmo wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:44 pm I love you evangelists. For the record, I've never commented on the long term future of cars including ICEs. I was under the impression that you need to make money to survive longer term in any business, however avantgarde / forward thinking / rich you are. My sole point is that unless you do so it goes pop.
I can see you really have your finger on the pulse!
So just out of interest, how long would you expect a large scale start-up car manufacturer would take to make an overall profit? I'm sure we can agree that the capex involved is pretty monumental and no serious investor is going to expect a short term return. But what Tesla have is a product range that is now rapidly becoming the blue-print for all legacy car manufacturers going forward. If Tesla had produced ordinary ICE cars, or even hybrids, they would never have got off the ground. But they made the right call and they made it a full decade before any of the legacy manufacturers. Plus they don't have any of the ICE baggage to carry around for the next couple of decades. This is their attraction to investors, it is no Ponzi scheme. Quite the opposite in fact as its a long game for major investors.

The real chance of Tesla going pop is actually very remote at this point in their development and they have been much closer to failure at various points in their early years. Model 3 production is now quietly accelerating and it is set to become a best selling car in many markets. The Model Y compact SUV will probably sell even better. There isn't even going to be any serious competition for a number of years and in any case it's a rapidly expanding market with plenty of room for alternative EVs. The only loss of sales will be in ICE equivalents. The Chinese manufacturers seem to have grasped this opportunity too and so we can expect a vast wave of far Eastern BEVs over the next decade. I'm sure the legacy manufacturers are secretly getting very worried about their long term prospects and are now clearly looking to accelerate their EV development before they get left behind and maybe they won't all survive the major shift in technology?
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Semerka
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Post by Semerka »

Peteski wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:41 am Tesla has not collapsed and is definitely not a Ponzi scheme. You should really be feeling sorry for those "mugs" who have been driving dirty diesels around for the last decade just so VAG can get rich while not giving a monkeys about the hidden pollution. Musk's silly tweets are trivia in comparison and at least the regulators appear to have had the sense to close this issue off without causing any real damage. I don't give a f*** about short investors, especially when it comes to shorting Tesla as they have been highly malicious in intent. It will be interesting to see how the civil lawsuit pans out as I expect some of these dubious characters may get exposed in the process. Maybe this is Musk's underlying reason for bringing all this out into the open.
And you were one of those "mugs", I gather from your posts when you joined this forum. ;)
Weren't you yourself thinking of joining the Macan SD family just over a year ago?
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Col Lamb
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Post by Col Lamb »

Semerka wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:23 am
Peteski wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:41 am Tesla has not collapsed and is definitely not a Ponzi scheme. You should really be feeling sorry for those "mugs" who have been driving dirty diesels around for the last decade just so VAG can get rich while not giving a monkeys about the hidden pollution. Musk's silly tweets are trivia in comparison and at least the regulators appear to have had the sense to close this issue off without causing any real damage. I don't give a f*** about short investors, especially when it comes to shorting Tesla as they have been highly malicious in intent. It will be interesting to see how the civil lawsuit pans out as I expect some of these dubious characters may get exposed in the process. Maybe this is Musk's underlying reason for bringing all this out into the open.
And you were one of those "mugs", I gather from your posts when you joined this forum. ;)
Weren't you yourself thinking of joining the Macan SD family just over a year ago?
Peterski was indeed undecided in his original post, it was the long delivery that seemed to be putting him off.

Mind you it did get worst when he test drove a Disco for a weekend and liked it.

Strange how he hummed and erred about the cost of a Macan then went out and bought a Tesla X.
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Paul
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Post by Paul »

I’m sure Peteski is more than capable if looking after himself, but I do find his posts really informed and interesting.

That his opinions (backed up by his wallet following his EV purchase) differ from many on here, is surely, part of why this forum remains one if the better on the ‘ net today?

Self-congratulation on how nice each others cars are is all well and good, but EVs are coming like it or not, and it’s great to get an early adopter sharing in great detail his experiences and eloquently justifying his decisions.
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Post by Deleted User 1874 »

Semerka wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:23 am
Peteski wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:41 am Tesla has not collapsed and is definitely not a Ponzi scheme. You should really be feeling sorry for those "mugs" who have been driving dirty diesels around for the last decade just so VAG can get rich while not giving a monkeys about the hidden pollution. Musk's silly tweets are trivia in comparison and at least the regulators appear to have had the sense to close this issue off without causing any real damage. I don't give a f*** about short investors, especially when it comes to shorting Tesla as they have been highly malicious in intent. It will be interesting to see how the civil lawsuit pans out as I expect some of these dubious characters may get exposed in the process. Maybe this is Musk's underlying reason for bringing all this out into the open.
And you were one of those "mugs", I gather from your posts when you joined this forum. ;)
Weren't you yourself thinking of joining the Macan SD family just over a year ago?
I used the word "mugs" in inverted commas just to echo the way Nosmo used it in a derogative fashion. Of course I'm a diesel "mug" and we still have one in the family. I did briefly consider a Macan SD too (along with the petrol S) and decided against it mainly on the size i.e. a bit too small for what we needed.
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Post by Deleted User 1874 »

Col Lamb wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:39 pm
Semerka wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:23 am
Peteski wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:41 am Tesla has not collapsed and is definitely not a Ponzi scheme. You should really be feeling sorry for those "mugs" who have been driving dirty diesels around for the last decade just so VAG can get rich while not giving a monkeys about the hidden pollution. Musk's silly tweets are trivia in comparison and at least the regulators appear to have had the sense to close this issue off without causing any real damage. I don't give a f*** about short investors, especially when it comes to shorting Tesla as they have been highly malicious in intent. It will be interesting to see how the civil lawsuit pans out as I expect some of these dubious characters may get exposed in the process. Maybe this is Musk's underlying reason for bringing all this out into the open.
And you were one of those "mugs", I gather from your posts when you joined this forum. ;)
Weren't you yourself thinking of joining the Macan SD family just over a year ago?
Peterski was indeed undecided in his original post, it was the long delivery that seemed to be putting him off.

Mind you it did get worst when he test drove a Disco for a weekend and liked it.

Strange how he hummed and erred about the cost of a Macan then went out and bought a Tesla X.
Actually I was looking at the Disco before the Macan and did quite like the practicality of it, but just couldn't get excited about it. Cost was only a factor in terms of value for money. I thought the Disco was a bit over-priced for the spec and performance, but it was comfortable and had a very roomy interior and practical luggage space. I don't remember thinking much about the cost of a Macan as my wife quickly black-balled the idea after looking around one in the showroom. It simply wasn't roomy enough and I had to admit it and move on. Then we started looking seriously at the new Volvo XC60/90 hybrids and that road eventually led us to the Tesla showroom. Surprisingly the Tesla was considerably cheaper on a 4 year PCP than any of its direct ICE equivalents (XC90, Cayenne, Q7 etc) despite the high list price and that did help push me into it. That and getting a taste for the electric drivetrain and tech! No regrets after 12k miles, I would say it's exceeded expectations and I think the chances our next car will be an ICE are virtually zero! It will either be another Tesla or some new competitor in the next 3 years.
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Post by Deleted User 1874 »

Paul wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:57 pm I’m sure Peteski is more than capable if looking after himself, but I do find his posts really informed and interesting.

That his opinions (backed up by his wallet following his EV purchase) differ from many on here, is surely, part of why this forum remains one if the better on the ‘ net today?

Self-congratulation on how nice each others cars are is all well and good, but EVs are coming like it or not, and it’s great to get an early adopter sharing in great detail his experiences and eloquently justifying his decisions.
Thanks Paul. Contrary to what some people believe I'm certainly no evangelist! If I have any brand loyalty it is more toward Porsche as I've owned many and still own a classic 911 today. But I'm also open minded and decided to give Tesla a chance. The Model X just happened to fit our immediate needs better than any other large SUV on the market and I haven't regretted buying it for one second. If it was shit I would say so too, but it isn't! There are certainly people who have had quality issues with them, especially early builds of the X, but ours has been faultless and it's fun to drive with all the tech and sublime performance. A big revelation for our whole family.

It's also very encouraging to see Porsche taking EVs seriously and testing their Taycan prototypes using Teslas as their benchmark. A future EV Cayenne or Macan could well be on the horizon for us and maybe an EV sports car. Certainly Porsche would be our first choice in that category.
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Post by Dandock »

It's also very encouraging to see Porsche taking EVs seriously and testing their Taycan prototypes using Teslas as their benchmark. A future EV Cayenne or Macan could well be on the horizon for us and maybe an EV sports car. Certainly Porsche would be our first choice in that category.
[/quote]

As you have often pointed out, Peteski, Tesla currently have the EV market to themselves so Porsche really had little option when choosing a benchmark.
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