Porsche Macan Forums

Ferdie wrote: ↑Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:04 pm

goron59 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:15 pm Well, manipulating the market (deliberately moving a stock price by making unofficial statements like he did)) is illegal. I’m surprised he’s not under investigation but the SEC. perhaps he is.

Perhaps he's making a bid for President of the US of A anything goes in that role..

Well, he appears to have the Twitter credentials.

Musk deserves everything he gets. I can't stand his arrogance and utter disregard for what are extremely clear rules concerning manipulation. Make no mistake, he's picked a fight with the wrong people now.

As to short sellers, they are invaluable in ensuring market efficiency and liquidity.

If Tesla is to succeed, Elon Musk needs to go.

People said the same about Steve Jobs, and when he was ousted Apple all but collapsed, and when he came back it became the richest company in the world.

VanB wrote: ↑Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:07 pm but the piranhas that actively short companies in the hope of getting rich deserve everything they get IMO

What have piranhas done to deserve being compared to such

GMAN75 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:22 pm
As to short sellers, they are invaluable in ensuring market efficiency and liquidity.

I suppose criminals are "invaluable" to the law enforcement industry too.

Peteski wrote: ↑Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:37 pm

GMAN75 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:22 pm
As to short sellers, they are invaluable in ensuring market efficiency and liquidity.

I suppose criminals are "invaluable" to the law enforcement industry too.

I hardly think that equating short sellers to criminals presents a viable argument. One would almost say you're too passionately involved with the brand rather than understand that if you believe a stock to be overvalued or you believe a stock will fall, you can short it. You can't be naked so you will always need to borrow the stock and sell it. There is nothing illegal about what is done. Conversely, Musk often blurs the lines with legality when it comes to his "announcements".

He is now saying he has Saudi backing but only wants to buy shares from those who want to sell.

His current holding is way short of what is required to initiate mandatory buyback of shares

GMAN75 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:51 pm

Peteski wrote: ↑Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:37 pm

GMAN75 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:22 pm
As to short sellers, they are invaluable in ensuring market efficiency and liquidity.

I suppose criminals are "invaluable" to the law enforcement industry too.

I hardly think that equating short sellers to criminals presents a viable argument. One would almost say you're too passionately involved with the brand rather than understand that if you believe a stock to be overvalued or you believe a stock will fall, you can short it. You can't be naked so you will always need to borrow the stock and sell it. There is nothing illegal about what is done. Conversely, Musk often blurs the lines with legality when it comes to his "announcements".

One would say you are probably too passionately involved with traders to realise how unethical and often stupid short sellers can be. In the case of Tesla in particular, the shorters fully deserve to get hammered. As for the brand, yes I do really like the cars and their vision for the industry in general.

Oh yeah and I believe there is a huge difference between "believing" a stock will fall and actively promoting its demise. I don't have a problem with the concept of shorting, but I do think these loud mouthed, aggressive Tesla shorters have gone way beyond what I would consider to be fair play (legal or not). So I personally think it's quite funny that they are getting some of their own medicine for a change (again legal or not).

Can someone tell me just how short sellers add value to the operation of a listed Company?

Also how do they contribute to the productivity of industry?

Col Lamb wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:33 am Can someone tell me just how short sellers add value to the operation of a listed Company?

Also how do they contribute to the productivity of industry?

I think you have confused the issue here. Shorting has nothing to do with the operation of a listed company. A listed company's shares are available to be bought and sold. The market makes the price.

Short sellers aim to sell a stock which they deem as being overvalued in an effort to buy it back at a cheaper price. It is the exact opposite of simply buying a stock at a low price with a view to selling it at a higher price. It is the consensus, regardless of the beat ups you hear, that short selling adds to market efficiency. If "long only" investors believe a stock is overvalued, they simply won't purchase it. The stock, theoretically, can then remain at its current level regardless of its overvaluation. A short seller can borrow this stock, sell it, and therefore fill in the "efficiency void" if you will. The stock, if there are more shorts than longs, will fall to its "real" valuation. It's how the market works.

If you then follow this through and question how this adds to productivity, share price efficiency shows how healthy a company is, it can add colour to whether it should be lent to etc etc...

Tesla is a prime example where market consensus is that the stock is fundamentally overvalued.

Hope that helps.