Yet more JLR woes

[happy days]

With 8 different SUVs in JLRs product line could this be part of their problem?

I agree, it seems like there are too many options, many of them competing directly with each other, which doesn't seem like a great sales strategy!

Back to the 70s - Austin 1100 v Morris 1100 v Dolomite v Marina etc etc. All different marques owned by the same group and directly competing with each other - and in sneak the Japanese with, (how dare they!), reliable cars that started in the mornings!

[Dandock]

With 8 different SUVs in JLRs product line could this be part of their problem?

I agree, it seems like there are too many options, many of them competing directly with each other, which doesn't seem like a great sales strategy!

Back to the 70s - Austin 1100 v Morris 1100 v Dolomite v Marina etc etc. All different marques owned by the same group and directly competing with each other - and in sneak the Japanese with, (how dare they!), reliable cars that started in the mornings!

And didn’t leave pools of oil on the drive.

[Dandock]

With 8 different SUVs in JLRs product line could this be part of their problem?

I agree, it seems like there are too many options, many of them competing directly with each other, which doesn't seem like a great sales strategy!

Back to the 70s - Austin 1100 v Morris 1100 v Dolomite v Marina etc etc. All different marques owned by the same group and directly competing with each other - and in sneak the Japanese with, (how dare they!), reliable cars that started in the mornings!

More seriously, I worked on their corporate identity back then and it was a management treacle field and thus total chaos. We never got beyond one particular section as they consistently changed their minds over the logo which then had be redesigned and the whole process of its application started over again.

Added to the rise of Japan the issues driven by the communist controlled unions and disastrous leadership from Donald Stokes and the company never recovered.

[Deleted User 1874]

I agree, it seems like there are too many options, many of them competing directly with each other, which doesn't seem like a great sales strategy!

Back to the 70s - Austin 1100 v Morris 1100 v Dolomite v Marina etc etc. All different marques owned by the same group and directly competing with each other - and in sneak the Japanese with, (how dare they!), reliable cars that started in the mornings!

More seriously, I worked on their corporate identity back then and it was a management treacle field and thus total chaos. We never got beyond one particular section as they consistently changed their minds over the logo which then had be redesigned and the whole process of its application started over again.

Added to the rise of Japan the issues driven by the communist controlled unions and disastrous leadership from Donald Stokes and the company never recovered.

Having fundamentally shit products really didn't help much either! I distinctly remember the British motoring press pretending to get excited about the Rover 800 and how important it would be for their future survival. Unfortunately it was yet another turd of a forgetful car. Their whole product line-up at that time was junk and they frankly deserved to fail.

[Monty2]

JLRs situation has in part come about by an internal document Service Notification JLRP 00100 relating to engine oil dilution resulting from JLR altering the DPF regeneration cycle to meet Euro 6 and Euro 6+in 2016/17 MY. Basically the two and three litre diesels are having the sump oil contaminated by un-burnt diesel washing down the bores and bringing on early service warning lights at every 4,500 to 5000 miles driven. in My RR the service interval is quoted at 16,000 mile or 12 months. I've done 13,000 miles since new and had 3 oil servicings and one 12 month servicing at the 6 month point, the car is now only 10 months old. LR HQ refuses to pay for these services as they put some really small print in their RR brochure in July 17 which stated servicing although 16000 miles or 12 months will be affected by owner driving style (which they fail to quantify). The other major issue is the infotainment system which is a known Achilles heel for most JLR products with system locking out, electrical interference etc.
The internal JLR document details the issues with oil dilution, at 4,500 miles my engine oil was diluted by 17% diesel, 4500 miles later it was 8% contaminated I am still awaiting a fix from JLR which is being promised by the end of this month (Sept 18). I swopped my Cayenne Diesel S in for this Range Rover which had achieved 20,000 miles before the first service light illuminated right on the Porsche promised button, the Range Rover is a nice place to be when travelling long distances but not a patch on the engineering or build quality of a Cayenne. Fortunately I kept my Macan GTS as the summer toy just in case a JLR product let me down yet again as had previous RRS and Evoques. The Macan which has been great and will still be with me after the Range Rover has been returned to its makers.

Paul

[Dandock]

The U.K. industry problem was a post war thing; a perfect storm of union power, lack of investment cos of the war and complacent ownership/management.

When all the great names were sucked up and became the nationalised BMC and later BL the dna was destroyed. For example Jags eponymous Browns Lane factory became BL Large Plant No. ?

The only thing that kept them alive and motivated until Michael Edwards arrived was the factory tours for owners from across the world.

And following the war whilst Britain and British industry was broke and unable to invest the Germans and Japanese received massive rebuilding support. Part of this support encompassed Quality Management, a then embryonic science developed in the U.K.

BMC, BL whatever you want to call it was the epitome of this issue. That together with the communist controlled unions and Lord Stokes’ accountancy-based management destroyed the rest.

Stokes remember dropped the Cooper S because of the £10 fee for John Cooper. He was totally profit orientated and simply couldn’t see the marketing value.

By the time the Rover 800 came along it was dead men walking.

[Dandock]

JLRs situation has in part come about by an internal document Service Notification JLRP 00100 relating to engine oil dilution resulting from JLR altering the DPF regeneration cycle to meet Euro 6 and Euro 6+in 2016/17 MY. Basically the two and three litre diesels are having the sump oil contaminated by un-burnt diesel washing down the bores and bringing on early service warning lights at every 4,500 to 5000 miles driven. in My RR the service interval is quoted at 16,000 mile or 12 months. I've done 13,000 miles since new and had 3 oil servicings and one 12 month servicing at the 6 month point, the car is now only 10 months old. LR HQ refuses to pay for these services as they put some really small print in their RR brochure in July 17 which stated servicing although 16000 miles or 12 months will be affected by owner driving style (which they fail to quantify). The other major issue is the infotainment system which is a known Achilles heel for most JLR products with system locking out, electrical interference etc.
The internal JLR document details the issues with oil dilution, at 4,500 miles my engine oil was diluted by 17% diesel, 4500 miles later it was 8% contaminated I am still awaiting a fix from JLR which is being promised by the end of this month (Sept 18). I swopped my Cayenne Diesel S in for this Range Rover which had achieved 20,000 miles before the first service light illuminated right on the Porsche promised button, the Range Rover is a nice place to be when travelling long distances but not a patch on the engineering or build quality of a Cayenne. Fortunately I kept my Macan GTS as the summer toy just in case a JLR product let me down yet again as had previous RRS and Evoques. The Macan which has been great and will still be with me after the Range Rover has been returned to its makers.

Paul

That certainly instills confidence.

[Dandock]

UK engineering also suffers from the lack of prestige given to relevant apprenticeships. In Germany children leave school at fifteen for treasured apprenticeship positions. These apprentices and apprenticeships are revered within industry and the personnel highly respected.

[Col Lamb]

I agree, it seems like there are too many options, many of them competing directly with each other, which doesn't seem like a great sales strategy!

Back to the 70s - Austin 1100 v Morris 1100 v Dolomite v Marina etc etc. All different marques owned by the same group and directly competing with each other - and in sneak the Japanese with, (how dare they!), reliable cars that started in the mornings!

More seriously, I worked on their corporate identity back then and it was a management treacle field and thus total chaos. We never got beyond one particular section as they consistently changed their minds over the logo which then had be redesigned and the whole process of its application started over again.

Added to the rise of Japan the issues driven by the communist controlled unions and disastrous leadership from Donald Stokes and the company never recovered.

It needed strong leadership at the time with straight talking management.

Alas that never happened.

Late seventies I went on a tour of the Ford factory in Liverpool, what a cr4p workforce that simply did not care, we could tell that by their actions and total lack of care, management that was not bothered about quality, all in all it was enlightening.

So at that time rubbish products were not the sole province of British Leyland.

[GMAN75]

JLRs situation has in part come about by an internal document Service Notification JLRP 00100 relating to engine oil dilution resulting from JLR altering the DPF regeneration cycle to meet Euro 6 and Euro 6+in 2016/17 MY. Basically the two and three litre diesels are having the sump oil contaminated by un-burnt diesel washing down the bores and bringing on early service warning lights at every 4,500 to 5000 miles driven. in My RR the service interval is quoted at 16,000 mile or 12 months. I've done 13,000 miles since new and had 3 oil servicings and one 12 month servicing at the 6 month point, the car is now only 10 months old. LR HQ refuses to pay for these services as they put some really small print in their RR brochure in July 17 which stated servicing although 16000 miles or 12 months will be affected by owner driving style (which they fail to quantify). The other major issue is the infotainment system which is a known Achilles heel for most JLR products with system locking out, electrical interference etc.
The internal JLR document details the issues with oil dilution, at 4,500 miles my engine oil was diluted by 17% diesel, 4500 miles later it was 8% contaminated I am still awaiting a fix from JLR which is being promised by the end of this month (Sept 18). I swopped my Cayenne Diesel S in for this Range Rover which had achieved 20,000 miles before the first service light illuminated right on the Porsche promised button, the Range Rover is a nice place to be when travelling long distances but not a patch on the engineering or build quality of a Cayenne. Fortunately I kept my Macan GTS as the summer toy just in case a JLR product let me down yet again as had previous RRS and Evoques. The Macan which has been great and will still be with me after the Range Rover has been returned to its makers.

Paul

Funny you should mention the infotainment system on a RR. A friend of mine recently took delivery of a c.£130k RR and his car has already been back into the workshop to try and fix something to do with this. His system randomly freezes, shuts down all the airco and his telephone but then suddenly restarts. Magic on a £130k car! A whole week in without the car and it still doesn't work! It was this or a fully loaded 2019 Porsche Cayenne Turbo. As the knight in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade says..."he chose poorly".