Really no more diesels this time?

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Miopyk
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Post by Miopyk »

Macananon wrote: Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:03 pm A true Porsche engine is a flat 6 and also now a flat 4.

The current V6 in the panny is a collaboration with Audi, and I guess all the other previous petrol V's also share a past with Audi . So not really a genuine full Porsche product. Just like the Diesel!!
I think you'll find that the 3.0 and 3.6 Turbo engines in current Macan's are in fact developments of the Porsche V8 engines (designed by Porsche before the VW buyout fiasco) found in the previous Cayennes and Panamera's. Porsche also had in house designed V8's in the 928 and straight 4's in the 944, 944S, S2 and 924S. I had one of each of these in the 80s/90s when I was young and carefree 8-). The 2.0 924 doesn't count as this unit came out of a VW LT van and isn't really very good in standard trim.

The new 2.9 and 3.0 V6 Turbos due in the updated Macan are indeed Audi units as were the 3.0 TD and the V8 TD units found in the Macan, Cayenne and Panamera.
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Dandock
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Post by Dandock »

Miopyk wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:07 pm
Macananon wrote: Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:03 pm A true Porsche engine is a flat 6 and also now a flat 4.

The current V6 in the panny is a collaboration with Audi, and I guess all the other previous petrol V's also share a past with Audi . So not really a genuine full Porsche product. Just like the Diesel!!
I think you'll find that the 3.0 and 3.6 Turbo engines in current Macan's are in fact developments of the Porsche V8 engines (designed by Porsche before the VW buyout fiasco) found in the previous Cayennes and Panamera's. Porsche also had in house designed V8's in the 928 and straight 4's in the 944, 944S, S2 and 924S. I had one of each of these in the 80s/90s when I was young and carefree 8-). The 2.0 924 doesn't count as this unit came out of a VW LT van and isn't really very good in standard trim.

The new 2.9 and 3.0 V6 Turbos due in the updated Macan are indeed Audi units as were the 3.0 TD and the V8 TD units found in the Macan, Cayenne and Panamera.

So, do we think that this will have bearing on the perception of the facelift model and thus it’s residuals and the residuals of the current model?
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Post by Dandock »

I’m seeing an ad for Kia on this page. A bit perverse!
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Miopyk
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Post by Miopyk »

Dandock wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:28 pm
Miopyk wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:07 pm
Macananon wrote: Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:03 pm A true Porsche engine is a flat 6 and also now a flat 4.

The current V6 in the panny is a collaboration with Audi, and I guess all the other previous petrol V's also share a past with Audi . So not really a genuine full Porsche product. Just like the Diesel!!
I think you'll find that the 3.0 and 3.6 Turbo engines in current Macan's are in fact developments of the Porsche V8 engines (designed by Porsche before the VW buyout fiasco) found in the previous Cayennes and Panamera's. Porsche also had in house designed V8's in the 928 and straight 4's in the 944, 944S, S2 and 924S. I had one of each of these in the 80s/90s when I was young and carefree 8-). The 2.0 924 doesn't count as this unit came out of a VW LT van and isn't really very good in standard trim.

The new 2.9 and 3.0 V6 Turbos due in the updated Macan are indeed Audi units as were the 3.0 TD and the V8 TD units found in the Macan, Cayenne and Panamera.

So, do we think that this will have bearing on the perception of the facelift model and thus it’s residuals and the residuals of the current model?
Not for about 20 years when all the died in the wool Porsche SUV purists will claim the only real Porsche Macan's were the first V6 Petrol versions as they were "proper Porsches" with proper engines. Forgetting of course that the chassis is a Q5 variation and other major components found their way into the cars from the VW parts bin. But then you could say that about nearly every Porsche over the years.
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Post by Dandock »

Miopyk wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:37 pm
Dandock wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:28 pm
Miopyk wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:07 pm

I think you'll find that the 3.0 and 3.6 Turbo engines in current Macan's are in fact developments of the Porsche V8 engines (designed by Porsche before the VW buyout fiasco) found in the previous Cayennes and Panamera's. Porsche also had in house designed V8's in the 928 and straight 4's in the 944, 944S, S2 and 924S. I had one of each of these in the 80s/90s when I was young and carefree 8-). The 2.0 924 doesn't count as this unit came out of a VW LT van and isn't really very good in standard trim.

The new 2.9 and 3.0 V6 Turbos due in the updated Macan are indeed Audi units as were the 3.0 TD and the V8 TD units found in the Macan, Cayenne and Panamera.

So, do we think that this will have bearing on the perception of the facelift model and thus it’s residuals and the residuals of the current model?
Not for about 20 years when all the died in the wool Porsche SUV purists will claim the only real Porsche Macan's were the first V6 Petrol versions as they were "proper Porsches" with proper engines. Forgetting of course that the chassis is a Q5 variation and other major components found their way into the cars from the VW parts bin. But then you could say that about nearly every Porsche over the years.
And Lamborghini et al
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Post by Col Lamb »

Engines are hugely expensive to design, manufacture and certify so for a large company like VAG is makes Engineering sense to have the least amount of engine permutations possible.
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Post by Col M »

Dandock wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:29 pm I’m seeing an ad for Kia on this page. A bit perverse!
Is it a diesel?
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Post by Dandock »

Col M wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:57 pm
Dandock wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:29 pm I’m seeing an ad for Kia on this page. A bit perverse!
Is it a diesel?
Don’t know. Can’t hear the engine. And it’s only on the iPad.

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Post by Nosmo »

Miopyk wrote: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:56 pm Back in the mid 70s after many years of hard work my Dad ordered his first Mercedes Benz. In those days they were seen as serious status symbol as they were heavily over engineered, not very common and relatively expensive. He waited a year for it to arrive and when it did he couldn't get the smile off his face for months. But he was hooked and never drove anything else. As time when by though he realised that the brand gradually lost its cachet, the quality was no longer what it was and they were almost as common as Ford's, Vauxhall's and the like. He kept his last Merc for nearly 10 years simply because he no longer wanted to invest any more money in a brand that he no longer felt was special.

I could see the same thing happening with Porsche. They are one of the Golden Egg Laying Gooses in the VW Group and they have been set on a road to chase volume over exclusivity and while the perceived quality is still there this will erode over time in the same way it did at Mercedes, BMW and Audi. Or at least that's how it will pan out if they continue chasing the numbers. Perhaps Dieselgate and the segregation of the Sports Car brands under Porsche management will prevent them falling into that trap and see them continue to build great cars in lower numbers to maintain quality, preserve residuals and keep their core customer base coming back for more.

I was one of the few early Macan owners that ordered a Petrol S when everyone else was ordering Diesel and remember having many interesting debates over that decision and whether one was better than the other. Don't get me wrong I understand the Diesel argument, I had a Diesel Mini Cooper and currently have a Diesel SLK purely for the economy/performance benefits they offered for my daily commute. But when I ordered both of my Macans I wanted Petrol engines because in my mind that's what a Porsche comes with and after more than 4 years driving them I'm more than happy with that decision. I hope they continue to build great cars for many years to come.
It was due to the crescendo of diesel objections and information around emissions on this forum which made me swap my diesel for a petrol. At the time the allocation of diesels (I am talking December 2013) was much higher than Petrol. Anyway, I didn't lose too much money after 18 months but am happy I followed the debate here.
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Post by On-Track »

Col Lamb wrote: Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:38 pm
Macadam wrote: Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:10 pm Was a diesel Porsche a contradiction in terms?
Yes.

It has been a case of engineering rebadging diesel engines from other VAG brands
Genuine Question: was the 4 litre diesel in the Panamera used in any other VAG group car? I thought all other VAG big diesels were the Audi 4.2L V8.

In any event, 0-100mile/h in 10s is a result unlikely to be seen again with a diesel power unit and I still think that's a shame.
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