EV range: real v claimed

[Dandock]

And the Porsche solution is...

https://electrek.co/2018/11/23/porsche- ... r-density/

Clearly a different perspective heavily influenced by their WEC experience.

[Col Lamb]

Slightly different tack.

I went to the NEC last week and when we got back home I started thinking (dangerous action for me) if I were to get an EV how would I fair about getting it recharged whilst at the NEC?

A search found that the NEC are reluctant to invest in charge points at present since there is little likelihood of them achieving the usage churn necessary to justify the installation costs.

What that means is that if someone who arrived in an EV plugged it in to an NEC charge point then their car would stay there until the party left the NEC, which means that the charge point would be unavailable to others for up to 8-9 hours. Whilst this would be OK if there were a lot of charge points it would not be OK for rapid chargers.

[Deleted User 1874]

Slightly different tack.

I went to the NEC last week and when we got back home I started thinking (dangerous action for me) if I were to get an EV how would I fair about getting it recharged whilst at the NEC?

A search found that the NEC are reluctant to invest in charge points at present since there is little likelihood of them achieving the usage churn necessary to justify the installation costs.

What that means is that if someone who arrived in an EV plugged it in to an NEC charge point then their car would stay there until the party left the NEC, which means that the charge point would be unavailable to others for up to 8-9 hours. Whilst this would be OK if there were a lot of charge points it would not be OK for rapid chargers.

This is a basic issue with all destination chargers. Personally I don't rely on them for charging, so for example if I went to the NEC I wouldn't be bothered about charging while I was there. It would be nice to get a top up if it was free (as many destination chargers currently are to attract custom) but certainly not essential. Once you have a range of over 2-300 miles and plenty of rapid on-road charge points, destination charging becomes less and less of an issue. It's not like you typically fill your fuel tank wherever you park for the day. So I see destination chargers as a bonus if they are available.

[Col Lamb]

Slightly different tack.

I went to the NEC last week and when we got back home I started thinking (dangerous action for me) if I were to get an EV how would I fair about getting it recharged whilst at the NEC?

A search found that the NEC are reluctant to invest in charge points at present since there is little likelihood of them achieving the usage churn necessary to justify the installation costs.

What that means is that if someone who arrived in an EV plugged it in to an NEC charge point then their car would stay there until the party left the NEC, which means that the charge point would be unavailable to others for up to 8-9 hours. Whilst this would be OK if there were a lot of charge points it would not be OK for rapid chargers.

This is a basic issue with all destination chargers. Personally I don't rely on them for charging, so for example if I went to the NEC I wouldn't be bothered about charging while I was there. It would be nice to get a top up if it was free (as many destination chargers currently are to attract custom) but certainly not essential. Once you have a range of over 2-300 miles and plenty of rapid on-road charge points, destination charging becomes less and less of an issue. It's not like you typically fill your fuel tank wherever you park for the day. So I see destination chargers as a bonus if they are available.

The round trip to the NEC for me would be 240 miles hence I would need to stop for a quick charge on the way back, not ideal given that typically at present we do not stop on the way there or back.

Hence a charger at the destination which in this case is the NEC would be much preferred even if it was such that I had to put it on charge and an hour or so later go back to the charging station to disconnect and move the car to free up the charger.

To limit the time taken in a rapid charger bay so that it is free for others will no doubt be the way of the future, if it were me and say a Tesla could be charged in 1 hour then after 90 minutes punative charges would apply if the car remained in the charge bay.

One thing is certain in the EV future there will not be chargers for every EV it will just be far to costly to install such a vast number of chargers.

[Deleted User 1874]

Slightly different tack.

I went to the NEC last week and when we got back home I started thinking (dangerous action for me) if I were to get an EV how would I fair about getting it recharged whilst at the NEC?

A search found that the NEC are reluctant to invest in charge points at present since there is little likelihood of them achieving the usage churn necessary to justify the installation costs.

What that means is that if someone who arrived in an EV plugged it in to an NEC charge point then their car would stay there until the party left the NEC, which means that the charge point would be unavailable to others for up to 8-9 hours. Whilst this would be OK if there were a lot of charge points it would not be OK for rapid chargers.

This is a basic issue with all destination chargers. Personally I don't rely on them for charging, so for example if I went to the NEC I wouldn't be bothered about charging while I was there. It would be nice to get a top up if it was free (as many destination chargers currently are to attract custom) but certainly not essential. Once you have a range of over 2-300 miles and plenty of rapid on-road charge points, destination charging becomes less and less of an issue. It's not like you typically fill your fuel tank wherever you park for the day. So I see destination chargers as a bonus if they are available.

The round trip to the NEC for me would be 240 miles hence I would need to stop for a quick charge on the way back, not ideal given that typically at present we do not stop on the way there or back.

Hence a charger at the destination which in this case is the NEC would be much preferred even if it was such that I had to put it on charge and an hour or so later go back to the charging station to disconnect and move the car to free up the charger.

To limit the time taken in a rapid charger bay so that it is free for others will no doubt be the way of the future, if it were me and say a Tesla could be charged in 1 hour then after 90 minutes punative charges would apply if the car remained in the charge bay.

One thing is certain in the EV future there will not be chargers for every EV it will just be far to costly to install such a vast number of chargers.

On a 240 mile round trip with my 75 kWh battery, I would need to spend maybe 15 mins at a Supercharger either on the way there or on the way home and would probably combine that with a coffee or just listen to a bit of music or a podcast whilst charging. Maybe a slight inconvenience if in a big hurry, but a bit of a First World problem. With a 100 kWh battery I wouldn't need to stop at all, but then it's a lot of extra battery to buy and haul around. You just have to think about the positives, like never having to visit a filling station every 400 miles. The overall EV experience (at least with a Tesla) is actually very nice from a practical point of view. Having a somewhat limited range is about the only negative in a long list of positives for everyday use. So far the range hasn't been an issue for me, even though there have been times when I've had to stop and charge on the road. But there were always times when I had to stop for petrol or diesel too and sometimes that could easily take 10 mins without any free time to myself. Not to mention a £70 charge for the privilege! So 15 mins at a Supercharger while you can stretch your legs or just chill out in the car is not so bad really.

[GMAN75]

Peteski, if I may, you are very selective in how you respond to the general concern surrounding range and charging capabilities of EVs. Not everyone in the EV world will possess a Tesla and therefore not everyone will be able to avail themselves of a supercharger network. Charging EVs, outside of a Tesla and its network in the UK at the moment, present real challenges in many locations. Secondly, not everyone, especially in built up areas has the capability to install any home charging facility. This is especially the case for those of us living in apartment complexes. So, ultimately, we have to rely on randomly place charge points which are frankly ludicrous. I, personally, will not adapt my habits just so I can drive into a supermarket or rest stop or whatever, just so that I can top up a charge. That is akin to "blasting" an SD on the motorway in the middle of the night to clear its DPF. It is, literally, never going to happen for me.

I will state again, the infrastructure isn't there to support the scale of EV take up people are expecting. But frankly, I don't care. I think the tech behind stuffing a chassis full of batteries is stone age stuff. It beggars belief that that is where automotive engineering lies.

Nonetheless, I will revert to my original point, outside of Tesla (which still has limited cgarging locations), there is currently absolutely no incentive for anyone to change to an EV until the charging capabilities exist so that it is as convenient to roll into a filling station, anywhere, to top up a charge, as it is now to fill your tank. It's that simple in my view.

I really want to be sold on new tech that reduces emissions but still provides the driver with the same desire for motoring you get when you just want to go belting through some mountain roads. For me, this EV charge isn't it.

[Deleted User 1874]

Peteski, if I may, you are very selective in how you respond to the general concern surrounding range and charging capabilities of EVs. Not everyone in the EV world will possess a Tesla and therefore not everyone will be able to avail themselves of a supercharger network. Charging EVs, outside of a Tesla and its network in the UK at the moment, present real challenges in many locations. Secondly, not everyone, especially in built up areas has the capability to install any home charging facility. This is especially the case for those of us living in apartment complexes. So, ultimately, we have to rely on randomly place charge points which are frankly ludicrous. I, personally, will not adapt my habits just so I can drive into a supermarket or rest stop or whatever, just so that I can top up a charge. That is akin to "blasting" an SD on the motorway in the middle of the night to clear its DPF. It is, literally, never going to happen for me.

I will state again, the infrastructure isn't there to support the scale of EV take up people are expecting. But frankly, I don't care. I think the tech behind stuffing a chassis full of batteries is stone age stuff. It beggars belief that that is where automotive engineering lies.

Nonetheless, I will revert to my original point, outside of Tesla (which still has limited cgarging locations), there is currently absolutely no incentive for anyone to change to an EV until the charging capabilities exist so that it is as convenient to roll into a filling station, anywhere, to top up a charge, as it is now to fill your tank. It's that simple in my view.

I really want to be sold on new tech that reduces emissions but still provides the driver with the same desire for motoring you get when you just want to go belting through some mountain roads. For me, this EV charge isn't it.

Well to be fair I've always agreed that the public EV charging infrastructure is not fully up to the job (although it is useable) and Tesla have a big advantage with their excellent Supercharger network. But it's really a chicken and egg situation. There are currently enough Teslas on the road to support their own bespoke rapid charging network and within the next few years you would expect the public EV network to expand to cater for all these EVs that are coming to market. Tesla is, if you like, a prototype for what will soon become the norm. I'm sure petrol stations were pretty thin on the ground when the first ICE cars started pottering around.

I've also acknowledged many times that there is an issue for those unable to charge at home. Which is why there will never be a single solution to personal transport. I wouldn't recommend owning an EV today if you don't have access to home charging. But if you can charge at home then it's definitely worth considering. Simple as that.

As for the EV tech being stone age doesn't make any sense at at all. I could say the same about an ICE with a tank full of petrol or diesel, but it has no meaning. There's nothing stone-age about electricity or batteries. It's just a different solution to moving people around. Have you got a better idea? If so I'm sure the automotive industry would spend billions on it and you would be a very wealthy man. As I said there doesn't have to be a single solution to personal transport.

[GMAN75]

The panacea is elusive, I'll pay that. However, in my view, the charge (excuse the pun) towards full electrification isn't it. I'm no engineer but a more concerted move towards enhancing self charging hybrid tech should present far more opportunities than what you see in EVs presently.

[Paul]

The panacea is elusive, I'll pay that. However, in my view, the charge (excuse the pun) towards full electrification isn't it. I'm no engineer but a more concerted move towards enhancing self charging hybrid tech should present far more opportunities than what you see in EVs presently.

But surely any hybrid still has an ICE?
And that is the whole point....getting rid of ICE within xx years....isn't it?

[Deleted User 1874]

The panacea is elusive, I'll pay that. However, in my view, the charge (excuse the pun) towards full electrification isn't it. I'm no engineer but a more concerted move towards enhancing self charging hybrid tech should present far more opportunities than what you see in EVs presently.

I don't think many people inside or outside the industry seriously expect self-charging hybrids to be the solution. Plug-in hybrids are only a partial solution too. Unfortunately we face a much bigger problem than either of those and arguably BEVs can hope to solve. On a personal level I'd much rather drive a full EV than a hybrid and that's exactly what I chose to do. It wouldn't work for everyone, but it certainly works for me and plenty of others.

What is becoming clear is that the industry is now moving toward a mix of hybrids (mainly plug-ins) and BEVs and ICE will be gradually phased out. I think the legacy manufacturers are hoping to milk the hybrid solution for as long as they can get away with, which is why the likes of Tesla are proving to be a thorn in their side. So they now appear to be hedging their bets a little more toward accelerating the intro of BEVs. You can tell they are making it up as they go along when the VW chief mistakenly states that they are planning to build 50 million EVs over the next X years and it takes them 3 days to realise that he actually meant 15 million!