VW to still build ICE cars as late as 2040 and beyond

[Deleted User 1874]

I just don't get all this battery rechargeable b*llocks for vehicle power.

I have several rechargeable things - ranging from a shaver to a smartphone to a hedge trimmer to an electric drill. Once charged they work well. BUT once discharged they take an age to recharge. So you're buggered unless you have spare and charged power packs.

With a car you're grounded until a lengthy time passes to charge it. How can this be progress? It's such a backward step.

Yes I know the argument - you never let it drop below 10% and aim to keep it at 80%. I for one will not contemplate a BEV until recharge times are the same or quicker than petrol / diesel refilling. If you run your petrol tank low and should have topped it up the evening before it's no biggy to do it the next morning enroute. Forget to charge your BEV overnight and you're stuffed.

It's not as if BEVs are good value for money to buy versus ICE.

So I cannot go along with all this "Brexit electric" rush twaddle.

Sorry, but this is the most stupid post I've read in a while.
Jump down from your high horse before it's too late.

Someone expresses legitimate concerns about issues surrounding EVs, issues which are universally accepted as real. Your first reaction is to jump down their throat. Your comment is bang out of order. WTF are you doing on this site anyway with such an attitude mate???!

I think he's just fed up of SAC1's persistent EV trolling. His/her concerns don't come across as being particularly legitimate, they are usually presented in a hateful rant against EVs, sometimes dressed up with some pro ICE news as in this particular thread. I think he/she just likes to wind up anyone who doesn't agree that EVs are the devil incarnate! There are of course legitimate concerns with EVs (and any other form of personal transport), but I'm learning that it's not possible to discuss them in any meaningful way with the likes of SAC1.

[SAC1]

GMAN75 I am not your mate, I own a Macan and have every right to express my feelings on this or any other subject. Why are you being so bombastic and what gives you the right to make such an obnoxious post.

To offset the "you must have a BEV right now" stance, I feel that a balanced discussion is needed as to why now or the near future is not the right time to switch. Also there are millions of people who do not have access to easy overnight charging.

It intrigues me why the global oil companies, with their millions involved in fuel extraction, refinement and deliveries - often to their owned forecourts - aren't panicking that BEVs will be putting their multi-billion dollar investments into the tumbleweeds anytime soon. Yes I've read that BP have taken over one of the UK charging companies, but how long will it be for them to have a row of chargers to cater for the same number as ICE pumps. They will of course nedd two or three times the number as charging takes SO long.

I am not anti-BEV, just the backward step in their speed of refuelling and universal [charging] availability. Read the original post "VW to still build ICE cars as late as 2040 and beyond". Perhaps they can see that this is a long tem conversion goal and are looking at alternative fuel sources too.

[GMAN75]

GMAN75 I am not your mate, I own a Macan and have every right to express my feelings on this or any other subject. Why are you being so bombastic and what gives you the right to make such an obnoxious post.

To offset the "you must have a BEV right now" stance, I feel that a balanced discussion is needed as to why now or the near future is not the right time to switch. Also there are millions of people who do not have access to easy overnight charging.

It intrigues me why the global oil companies, with their millions involved in fuel extraction, refinement and deliveries - often to their owned forecourts - aren't panicking that BEVs will be putting their multi-billion dollar investments into the tumbleweeds anytime soon. Yes I've read that BP have taken over one of the UK charging companies, but how long will it be for them to have a row of chargers to cater for the same number as ICE pumps. They will of course nedd two or three times the number as charging takes SO long.

I am not anti-BEV, just the backward step in their speed of refuelling and universal [charging] availability. Read the original post "VW to still build ICE cars as late as 2040 and beyond". Perhaps they can see that this is a long tem conversion goal and are looking at alternative fuel sources too.

I think you'll find I was responding to a post by muxty which appears to have been deleted. Your sentiments regarding EVs, for me, appear bang on.

[Deleted User 1874]

I am not anti-BEV

seriously?

[nsm3]

No Nothing!

[SAC1]

I think you'll find I was responding to a post by muxty which appears to have been deleted. Your sentiments regarding EVs, for me, appear bang on.

My sincere apologies GMAN75

[SAC1]

I am not anti-BEV

seriously?

Correct - I am not anti-BEV. We even looked at getting one as our second car - hatch back style - and tried the BMW i3, new Leaf, Golf-e [and even test drove a Jag i-Pace, as a potential Macan replacement]. None fitted our particular needs in size, driveability and useability.

[Deleted User 1874]

To offset the "you must have a BEV right now" stance, I feel that a balanced discussion is needed as to why now or the near future is not the right time to switch. Also there are millions of people who do not have access to easy overnight charging.

Okay I'm up for yet another go at a "balanced" discussion if you like.

So let's start with who here is advocating this "you must have a BEV right now" stance? I haven't actually heard anyone say that, so I'm going to suggest you made it up just so you could argue against it.

I think we've covered the obvious issues (many times over) for those millions of people who do not have access to easy overnight charging and concluded that a BEV would not currently work conveniently for those people. But that still leaves us with millions of other people who could potentially benefit from an EV today. Those are the people who are likely to be switching in the near future and I see this happening already on a small scale. I guess I'm one of those people and since we got the Tesla back in Feb, 5 other people we know have made that same switch, encouraged by our own positive experience. Many others I know are curious (certainly there are a few on this forum too) and I get no end of people asking about the Tesla. It certainly makes a lot more sense for us than running an ICE car, especially a diesel, with our many short trips back and forth during the day. There really is no downside for us, although I'm certainly not going to say everyone should switch to an EV today. But if it does fit your lifestyle then it's an awesome alternative!

Whether or not a BEV is the best choice for an individual comes down to a few simple factors like their access to charging facilities, driving schedules and budget. For some (like me) it should already be a no-brainer to switch to a BEV, but for some it's not so clear cut and for some genuinely impractical. A general reluctance to embrace any form of change is also an invisible barrier to many, but I predict that will slowly melt away in the coming years as BEVs and particularly hybrids become increasingly mainstream.

Environmental arguments against BEVs are very weak, especially when the baseline you are comparing them against is woefully short of both climate change and local pollution targets. All the reputable independent academic studies I've read in the last couple of years have clearly shown BEVs to be considerably less damaging overall than any ICE equivalents (anything from 20-80% less pollution depending on charging location). But as with climate change itself, there has been a lot of false information and lobbying from those standing to lose out financially from the change. Regardless, the current generation generally doesn't care much about environmental issues , but I'm fairly sure the next generation will take it all a lot more seriously and that should create a further big push toward EVs.

[Deleted User 1874]

I am not anti-BEV

seriously?

Correct - I am not anti-BEV. We even looked at getting one as our second car - hatch back style - and tried the BMW i3, new Leaf, Golf-e [and even test drove a Jag i-Pace, as a potential Macan replacement]. None fitted our particular needs in size, driveability and useability.

Yeah sure you have, but you still come out with loads of anti-EV statements such as:-

I just don't get all this battery rechargeable b*llocks for vehicle power.

I could equally say "I just don't get this diesel b*llocks for vehicle power", but I realise there are reasons why it might still suit certain groups of people and vehicle types. You just seem to presume BEVs are unsuitable for anyone.

[GMAN75]

To offset the "you must have a BEV right now" stance, I feel that a balanced discussion is needed as to why now or the near future is not the right time to switch. Also there are millions of people who do not have access to easy overnight charging.

Okay I'm up for yet another go at a "balanced" discussion if you like.

So let's start with who here is advocating this "you must have a BEV right now" stance? I haven't actually heard anyone say that, so I'm going to suggest you made it up just so you could argue against it.

I think we've covered the obvious issues (many times over) for those millions of people who do not have access to easy overnight charging and concluded that a BEV would not currently work conveniently for those people. But that still leaves us with millions of other people who could potentially benefit from an EV today. Those are the people who are likely to be switching in the near future and I see this happening already on a small scale. I guess I'm one of those people and since we got the Tesla back in Feb, 5 other people we know have made that same switch, encouraged by our own positive experience. Many others I know are curious (certainly there are a few on this forum too) and I get no end of people asking about the Tesla. It certainly makes a lot more sense for us than running an ICE car, especially a diesel, with our many short trips back and forth during the day. There really is no downside for us, although I'm certainly not going to say everyone should switch to an EV today. But if it does fit your lifestyle then it's an awesome alternative!

Whether or not a BEV is the best choice for an individual comes down to a few simple factors like their access to charging facilities, driving schedules and budget. For some (like me) it should already be a no-brainer to switch to a BEV, but for some it's not so clear cut and for some genuinely impractical. A general reluctance to embrace any form of change is also an invisible barrier to many, but I predict that will slowly melt away in the coming years as BEVs and particularly hybrids become increasingly mainstream.

Environmental arguments against BEVs are very weak, especially when the baseline you are comparing them against is woefully short of both climate change and local pollution targets. All the reputable independent academic studies I've read in the last couple of years have clearly shown BEVs to be considerably less damaging overall than any ICE equivalents (anything from 20-80% less pollution depending on charging location). But as with climate change itself, there has been a lot of false information and lobbying from those standing to lose out financially from the change. Regardless, the current generation generally doesn't care much about environmental issues , but I'm fairly sure the next generation will take it all a lot more seriously and that should create a further big push toward EVs.

No sense in hanging on to the Qashqai is there?? Better still, stop the inadvertent hedge and go full EV. What's stopping you?