VW to still build ICE cars as late as 2040 and beyond

[SAC1]

You just seem to presume BEVs are unsuitable for anyone.

I have never said that ever.

Someone had to point out the disadvantages of BEVs and their usage in 2018 though in order to maintain balance on this matter.

i am totally FED UP with this BEV subject and will not be posting again.

[RAA]

We could always go back to the horse and cart, and the 'pollutant' might come in really useful, if you've got a garden !

[Deleted User 1874]

To offset the "you must have a BEV right now" stance, I feel that a balanced discussion is needed as to why now or the near future is not the right time to switch. Also there are millions of people who do not have access to easy overnight charging.

Okay I'm up for yet another go at a "balanced" discussion if you like.

So let's start with who here is advocating this "you must have a BEV right now" stance? I haven't actually heard anyone say that, so I'm going to suggest you made it up just so you could argue against it.

I think we've covered the obvious issues (many times over) for those millions of people who do not have access to easy overnight charging and concluded that a BEV would not currently work conveniently for those people. But that still leaves us with millions of other people who could potentially benefit from an EV today. Those are the people who are likely to be switching in the near future and I see this happening already on a small scale. I guess I'm one of those people and since we got the Tesla back in Feb, 5 other people we know have made that same switch, encouraged by our own positive experience. Many others I know are curious (certainly there are a few on this forum too) and I get no end of people asking about the Tesla. It certainly makes a lot more sense for us than running an ICE car, especially a diesel, with our many short trips back and forth during the day. There really is no downside for us, although I'm certainly not going to say everyone should switch to an EV today. But if it does fit your lifestyle then it's an awesome alternative!

Whether or not a BEV is the best choice for an individual comes down to a few simple factors like their access to charging facilities, driving schedules and budget. For some (like me) it should already be a no-brainer to switch to a BEV, but for some it's not so clear cut and for some genuinely impractical. A general reluctance to embrace any form of change is also an invisible barrier to many, but I predict that will slowly melt away in the coming years as BEVs and particularly hybrids become increasingly mainstream.

Environmental arguments against BEVs are very weak, especially when the baseline you are comparing them against is woefully short of both climate change and local pollution targets. All the reputable independent academic studies I've read in the last couple of years have clearly shown BEVs to be considerably less damaging overall than any ICE equivalents (anything from 20-80% less pollution depending on charging location). But as with climate change itself, there has been a lot of false information and lobbying from those standing to lose out financially from the change. Regardless, the current generation generally doesn't care much about environmental issues , but I'm fairly sure the next generation will take it all a lot more seriously and that should create a further big push toward EVs.

No sense in hanging on to the Qashqai is there?? Better still, stop the inadvertent hedge and go full EV. What's stopping you?

Ha, ha, I can't wait to see the back of our Qashqai diesel. Currently my wife is commuting 4 miles each way in it and it's a matter of time before it corks itself up under that regime. I did suggest chopping it in for an i3, eGolf or Leaf, but my wife wants a Tesla Model 3 and has decided she can't be bothered with the hassle of an interim swap. It's fair to say she hates driving the Qashqai now, but she spends very little time in it. I've driven it a handful of times since we got the Tesla and it serves to remind me how much better an EV is for daily driving. It's a bit odd because I never had a problem with driving the Qashqai when we had a Porsche 997 C4S sat alongside it for 3 years, but now it just feels agricultural in every respect, especially the diesel drivetrain.

So no question, after taking the plunge with the Tesla, we will be going full EV in the next 12 months or so (our classic 911 is in for the chop too) and nobody in our family is going to miss having a diesel car, or any ICE car for that matter. The kids in particular love wafting around in the Tesla and they keep asking why everything else is so slow and noisy! With more interesting EVs coming onto the market in the next few years it can only get better from here. The Porsche Taycan is a very interesting option, although probably doesn't fit into our lifestyle at the moment. An EV Macan or certainly an EV Cayenne would though.... shame they don't exist yet.

[Deleted User 1874]

You just seem to presume BEVs are unsuitable for anyone.

I have never said that ever.

Someone had to point out the disadvantages of BEVs and their usage in 2018 though in order to maintain balance on this matter.

i am totally FED UP with this BEV subject and will not be posting again.

You could have easily pointed out the obvious disadvantages of BEVs in 2018 without resorting to the hateful rants that you often come out with. It just makes you look ignorant, or at least to me it does. Others have managed to present the disadvantages without your dismissive tone, I've even done it myself on a number of occasions!

At the very least you can expect to be challenged on your polarised BEV opinions, especially when you have only ever been on the other side of the fence. At least I've had experience of both sides to make a more informed decision on what to drive. I must admit I did wonder if there was some issue I'd missed when first taking the EV plunge, but actually it simply uncovered additional advantages that I hadn't even thought much of beforehand, such as the value in being able to heat/cool the interior remotely while locked and silent. Cold morning start-ups and minging hot summer interiors are both history for me now.

[GMAN75]

Okay I'm up for yet another go at a "balanced" discussion if you like.

So let's start with who here is advocating this "you must have a BEV right now" stance? I haven't actually heard anyone say that, so I'm going to suggest you made it up just so you could argue against it.

I think we've covered the obvious issues (many times over) for those millions of people who do not have access to easy overnight charging and concluded that a BEV would not currently work conveniently for those people. But that still leaves us with millions of other people who could potentially benefit from an EV today. Those are the people who are likely to be switching in the near future and I see this happening already on a small scale. I guess I'm one of those people and since we got the Tesla back in Feb, 5 other people we know have made that same switch, encouraged by our own positive experience. Many others I know are curious (certainly there are a few on this forum too) and I get no end of people asking about the Tesla. It certainly makes a lot more sense for us than running an ICE car, especially a diesel, with our many short trips back and forth during the day. There really is no downside for us, although I'm certainly not going to say everyone should switch to an EV today. But if it does fit your lifestyle then it's an awesome alternative!

Whether or not a BEV is the best choice for an individual comes down to a few simple factors like their access to charging facilities, driving schedules and budget. For some (like me) it should already be a no-brainer to switch to a BEV, but for some it's not so clear cut and for some genuinely impractical. A general reluctance to embrace any form of change is also an invisible barrier to many, but I predict that will slowly melt away in the coming years as BEVs and particularly hybrids become increasingly mainstream.

Environmental arguments against BEVs are very weak, especially when the baseline you are comparing them against is woefully short of both climate change and local pollution targets. All the reputable independent academic studies I've read in the last couple of years have clearly shown BEVs to be considerably less damaging overall than any ICE equivalents (anything from 20-80% less pollution depending on charging location). But as with climate change itself, there has been a lot of false information and lobbying from those standing to lose out financially from the change. Regardless, the current generation generally doesn't care much about environmental issues , but I'm fairly sure the next generation will take it all a lot more seriously and that should create a further big push toward EVs.

No sense in hanging on to the Qashqai is there?? Better still, stop the inadvertent hedge and go full EV. What's stopping you?

Ha, ha, I can't wait to see the back of our Qashqai diesel. Currently my wife is commuting 4 miles each way in it and it's a matter of time before it corks itself up under that regime. I did suggest chopping it in for an i3, eGolf or Leaf, but my wife wants a Tesla Model 3 and has decided she can't be bothered with the hassle of an interim swap. It's fair to say she hates driving the Qashqai now, but she spends very little time in it. I've driven it a handful of times since we got the Tesla and it serves to remind me how much better an EV is for daily driving. It's a bit odd because I never had a problem with driving the Qashqai when we had a Porsche 997 C4S sat alongside it for 3 years, but now it just feels agricultural in every respect, especially the diesel drivetrain.

So no question, after taking the plunge with the Tesla, we will be going full EV in the next 12 months or so (our classic 911 is in for the chop too) and nobody in our family is going to miss having a diesel car, or any ICE car for that matter. The kids in particular love wafting around in the Tesla and they keep asking why everything else is so slow and noisy! With more interesting EVs coming onto the market in the next few years it can only get better from here. The Porsche Taycan is a very interesting option, although probably doesn't fit into our lifestyle at the moment. An EV Macan or certainly an EV Cayenne would though.... shame they don't exist yet.

I'll take your 911 for £50 if you're so keen to chop it. I'll even pay to pick it up!

[Deleted User 1874]

No sense in hanging on to the Qashqai is there?? Better still, stop the inadvertent hedge and go full EV. What's stopping you?

Ha, ha, I can't wait to see the back of our Qashqai diesel. Currently my wife is commuting 4 miles each way in it and it's a matter of time before it corks itself up under that regime. I did suggest chopping it in for an i3, eGolf or Leaf, but my wife wants a Tesla Model 3 and has decided she can't be bothered with the hassle of an interim swap. It's fair to say she hates driving the Qashqai now, but she spends very little time in it. I've driven it a handful of times since we got the Tesla and it serves to remind me how much better an EV is for daily driving. It's a bit odd because I never had a problem with driving the Qashqai when we had a Porsche 997 C4S sat alongside it for 3 years, but now it just feels agricultural in every respect, especially the diesel drivetrain.

So no question, after taking the plunge with the Tesla, we will be going full EV in the next 12 months or so (our classic 911 is in for the chop too) and nobody in our family is going to miss having a diesel car, or any ICE car for that matter. The kids in particular love wafting around in the Tesla and they keep asking why everything else is so slow and noisy! With more interesting EVs coming onto the market in the next few years it can only get better from here. The Porsche Taycan is a very interesting option, although probably doesn't fit into our lifestyle at the moment. An EV Macan or certainly an EV Cayenne would though.... shame they don't exist yet.

I'll take your 911 for £50 if you're so keen to chop it. I'll even pay to pick it up!

Well I might consider £50K. I'm keen to sell it, but I'm not oblivious to its current market value! Or maybe £50 might be closer to the mark post-Brexit

[Col Lamb]

Peterski

Tesla should GIVE you a Model 3 for being such a Champion of EV cars.

I totally fail to see what is wrong with having a car with so much instant Torque that it will put a 5 litre V8 diesel to shame and just why some members here fail to see the advantages of an EV and yet they are constantly keen to point out the range limitations.

To all of you doubters who shuttle their kids to school think just how much less pollution there would be around the school if all Mums and Dads taking their kids there were in an EV!

[GMAN75]

Peterski

Tesla should GIVE you a Model 3 for being such a Champion of EV cars.

I totally fail to see what is wrong with having a car with so much instant Torque that it will put a 5 litre V8 diesel to shame and just why some members here fail to see the advantages of an EV and yet they are constantly keen to point out the range limitations.

To all of you doubters who shuttle their kids to school think just how much less pollution there would be around the school if all Mums and Dads taking their kids there were in an EV!

Col, I think this has been done to death frankly. Yes, there are advantages to EVs but, for a lot, there are also huge glaring inconveniences and disadvantages. This has been universally acknowledged even by Peteski, EV's own lovechild. It antagonises those of us hearing people bestow all the positives on EVs, but conveniently ignoring the complexities of finding charging spots without having to forcibly change your habits or even where you live! You think that everyone in large cities has convenient access to these?? No. It has been stated time and again that until the infrastructure is built and the convenience exists to charge your car with the same efficiency as currently exists with fuel stations, a lot will be forced to hang on to their ICE vehicles. It's that basic.

Until then, and if you're so for it, the next post you should put up should be one of you trading in your Macan Turbo (!!) for an EV. What's the hold up??!

You won't change the views of us who value practicalities and conveniences as they exist now.

[Deleted User 1874]

Peterski

Tesla should GIVE you a Model 3 for being such a Champion of EV cars.

I totally fail to see what is wrong with having a car with so much instant Torque that it will put a 5 litre V8 diesel to shame and just why some members here fail to see the advantages of an EV and yet they are constantly keen to point out the range limitations.

To all of you doubters who shuttle their kids to school think just how much less pollution there would be around the school if all Mums and Dads taking their kids there were in an EV!

Col, I think this has been done to death frankly. Yes, there are advantages to EVs but, for a lot, there are also huge glaring inconveniences and disadvantages. This has been universally acknowledged even by Peteski, EV's own lovechild. It antagonises those of us hearing people bestow all the positives on EVs, but conveniently ignoring the complexities of finding charging spots without having to forcibly change your habits or even where you live! You think that everyone in large cities has convenient access to these?? No. It has been stated time and again that until the infrastructure is built and the convenience exists to charge your car with the same efficiency as currently exists with fuel stations, a lot will be forced to hang on to their ICE vehicles. It's that basic.

Until then, and if you're so for it, the next post you should put up should be one of you trading in your Macan Turbo (!!) for an EV. What's the hold up??!

You won't change the views of us who value practicalities and conveniences as they exist now.

The issue of not being able to charge your EV at home is very real. Without that particular luxury I don't think I would be tempted with an EV at this point. But some of the other supposed disadvantages like limited range and slow roadside charging are often greatly overstated by those who have no experience of living with an EV. Having said that, those issues are somewhat dependent on what EV model you choose. I don't think I could live with a Leaf, Zoe, i3 or eGolf for long distance driving, but it poses no problems in a Tesla and is in fact a very nice way to drive long distance. When you move on to the positives of an EV, they can be very compelling, as I've discovered for myself!

Traffic congestion in towns and cities is frankly appalling. I just don't see future generations crawling around at an average of 2 mph in cars. It doesn't make any sense at all. We're already seeing a new generation emerge that are not so fussed about owning cars and just see them as a liability. The city streets are literally littered with stationary cars for 90% of the day. Any intelligent being arriving from outer space would think it was a joke!

I don't expect to change the views of those who have decided they can't live with an EV, that's entirely their own call to make. But EVs are definitely going to play a much more prominent role in the personal transport sector over the next few decades. You only have to listen to the industry news to see that is the direction it is heading, albeit at a snails pace for fairly obvious reasons. I would conservatively predict that at least a quarter of the posters on this forum will end up driving an electric Macan in the near future, even if they don't think so yet

[Deleted User 1874]

Peterski

Tesla should GIVE you a Model 3 for being such a Champion of EV cars.

I totally fail to see what is wrong with having a car with so much instant Torque that it will put a 5 litre V8 diesel to shame and just why some members here fail to see the advantages of an EV and yet they are constantly keen to point out the range limitations.

To all of you doubters who shuttle their kids to school think just how much less pollution there would be around the school if all Mums and Dads taking their kids there were in an EV!

I wish
I definitely see a bitter divide between those who can take advantage of an EV today and those who can't simply because of where they live. It's like looking at the pros and cons of living in a city. We chose to live in the countryside for various reasons and being able to run an EV conveniently is one of the perks, even though most people who live here haven't sussed it yet. Some people seem to take issue with that and look to talk EVs down at any opportunity. Others simply don't get it at all, even if they could potentially benefit from making the change. This will change over time for sure, especially when there is more choice of EVs right across the market spectrum.