Tesla Model 3 motor issues

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goron59
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Post by goron59 »

Interesting view on "mid range" Model 3 vs "Performance", why not all electric motors are created equal, instant full torque not always instant and not always full.
And farting :D

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Post by CharlesElliott »

My order from 1st April 2016 is still awaiting a delivery date!
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Post by Triple7 »

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Post by Deleted User 1874 »

goron59 wrote: Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:09 pm Interesting view on "mid range" Model 3 vs "Performance", why not all electric motors are created equal, instant full torque not always instant and not always full.
And farting :D
It's all relative. The mid-range Model 3 is a 250 hp car, while the Performance version is more like 450 hp and more than 2 sec quicker to 60 mph (3.3 vs 5.6 s). I think they both have their place in the market. It's like comparing an upper range 3 series 330i against an M3 and neither of those are going to match the electric throttle response of the respective Model 3s.

Someone posted a speed vs time graph for the Model 3 Performance and it hit a peak of around 0.85 G by 5 mph and stayed there all the way to about 50 mph before starting to drop off slightly. Any hint of a "torque ripple" was gone in the first complete wheel rotation. I haven't seen a graph for the mid-range Model 3, but I would expect it's software rather than hardware limited on initial acceleration. Non-P model Teslas definitely have a soft start off the line before the torque fully kicks in, while the P-model launches are just brutal.
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Post by Col Lamb »

Its Tesla being cheap, its the choice of electric motor in the non P version that as the reviewer states is the problem.

The type of electric motor in the non P model does require the soft start, its a physical limitation of that type of motor. If the start is not soft then the motor will stall and the current pulled will skyrocket if left in that state something will burn out pretty soon.

Nearest analogy that comes to mind its akin to the old Turbo models where there was lag before anything happened, same thing with these old style electric motors, the rotor has to get moving at a certain angular velocity before it starts to become efficient.
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Post by GMAN75 »

Peteski wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:52 am
goron59 wrote: Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:09 pm Interesting view on "mid range" Model 3 vs "Performance", why not all electric motors are created equal, instant full torque not always instant and not always full.
And farting :D
It's all relative. The mid-range Model 3 is a 250 hp car, while the Performance version is more like 450 hp and more than 2 sec quicker to 60 mph (3.3 vs 5.6 s). I think they both have their place in the market. It's like comparing an upper range 3 series 330i against an M3 and neither of those are going to match the electric throttle response of the respective Model 3s.

Someone posted a speed vs time graph for the Model 3 Performance and it hit a peak of around 0.85 G by 5 mph and stayed there all the way to about 50 mph before starting to drop off slightly. Any hint of a "torque ripple" was gone in the first complete wheel rotation. I haven't seen a graph for the mid-range Model 3, but I would expect it's software rather than hardware limited on initial acceleration. Non-P model Teslas definitely have a soft start off the line before the torque fully kicks in, while the P-model launches are just brutal.
If one of these brutal launches breaks something on the car, where does one take it for a service? You experienced that yet?
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goron59
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Post by goron59 »

I found it an interesting compromise on the 3P though (if that's what it is) - a cheaper, more efficient blunt instrument for the rear axel and a more sophisticated one for the front, combining to produce a decent effect.

It's starting to elevate EVs from boring white goods appliances on wheels to fascinating engineering curiosities - at least for me anyway :)

Interesting on the claimed vs shipping weights too.
Used to have 2016 Macan Turbo PHCKCL70
Previously a 2014 Macan Turbo.
Now a 2021 Tesla Model 3 LR
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Post by Deleted User 1874 »

Col Lamb wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:17 am Its Tesla being cheap, its the choice of electric motor in the non P version that as the reviewer states is the problem.
It's not been confirmed yet whether or not the motor is a real limitation or if it's just a software limit to artificially cap performance. We've seen graphs of Model 3 Performance launches and they show no sign whatsoever of any "soft start" torque limitation, but nobody has produced a corresponding graph for the mid-range car to compare yet. The guy in the video obviously felt that the mid-range Model 3 was atypical of electric car throttle response, so there's obviously something going on. My bet is that Tesla are deliberately holding the motor back as they have in the past with their S and X models. There's even evidence to suggest that the Performance Model 3 is software limited in performance as a few early owners reported acceleration rates significantly higher than claimed, to then see them capped with later OTA software updates. There are a number of aftermarket datalogging apps available for Tesla owners, so real world performance graphs are often published on the forums.

At the end of the day, the mid-range Model 3 is a fairly quick car (comparable in performance to a new BMW 330i) while the Performance Model 3 is seriously quick by any measure.
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Post by Deleted User 1874 »

GMAN75 wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:50 am
Peteski wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:52 am
goron59 wrote: Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:09 pm Interesting view on "mid range" Model 3 vs "Performance", why not all electric motors are created equal, instant full torque not always instant and not always full.
And farting :D
It's all relative. The mid-range Model 3 is a 250 hp car, while the Performance version is more like 450 hp and more than 2 sec quicker to 60 mph (3.3 vs 5.6 s). I think they both have their place in the market. It's like comparing an upper range 3 series 330i against an M3 and neither of those are going to match the electric throttle response of the respective Model 3s.

Someone posted a speed vs time graph for the Model 3 Performance and it hit a peak of around 0.85 G by 5 mph and stayed there all the way to about 50 mph before starting to drop off slightly. Any hint of a "torque ripple" was gone in the first complete wheel rotation. I haven't seen a graph for the mid-range Model 3, but I would expect it's software rather than hardware limited on initial acceleration. Non-P model Teslas definitely have a soft start off the line before the torque fully kicks in, while the P-model launches are just brutal.
If one of these brutal launches breaks something on the car, where does one take it for a service? You experienced that yet?
I would fire it straight back to my local Tesla service centre under warranty, not that I've had any problems with mine. Model X driveshaft joints are known to wear quickly on P-models (under 10K miles in some cases) and they just replace them under warranty at service. The rest of the drivetrain seems well up to the job. Most Tesla issues are either electronic or fit and finish quality rather than mechanicals or motors. You do hear about the odd premature motor or bearing failure, but they're not hard to change and the warranty is very comprehensive.
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Post by Deleted User 1874 »

goron59 wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:50 am I found it an interesting compromise on the 3P though (if that's what it is) - a cheaper, more efficient blunt instrument for the rear axel and a more sophisticated one for the front, combining to produce a decent effect.

It's starting to elevate EVs from boring white goods appliances on wheels to fascinating engineering curiosities - at least for me anyway :)

Interesting on the claimed vs shipping weights too.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to driving the Model 3 Performance. I would imagine the performance is stellar at real world road speeds i.e. up to a ton. There are already petrol heads in the US coming from breathed-on M3s and the like raving about the Model 3P acceleration and handling performance.

It should be pretty obvious from the published specs that the mid-range Model 3 is going to feel pretty ordinary compared to the Performance Model. It has a 200 hp advantage and tuned more for hooning around tracks etc. Any theoretical limitation on the rear motor torque response is purely academic when you see a graph of its standing start acceleration. It's just something that ICE cars inherently struggle to compete with like for like in cost.
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