Williams F1

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Dandock
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Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:29 pm

Post by Dandock »

Peteski wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:43 am
Col Lamb wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:53 am For me Williams lost all credibility in the manner in which Nigel Mansell departed.

Lo and behold a few years later the same thing with Damon Hill.

Williams today are small fry, a make up the numbers team, zero potential, but that is the same for all but Mercedes, Ferrari and to an extent Red Bull.

Alas today it is not the sport that it once was, am I am not sure it will ever recover.

Keeping fingers crossed that the changes made this year will result in actual racing.
Well Frank and Patrick are not exactly renowned for their driver management skills (or any other sort of people management skills). I went to Williams with Mark Webber and saw first hand how he was treated and it very nearly destroyed his career at the time. Certainly put me right off the whole scene too and once I left in 2009 I was glad to see the back of F1 and I've hardly watched a race since. Doesn't look like much has changed since then. Pretty much everyone I know from Williams who had any sense moved on pretty quickly, which is yet another reason for its demise.

Frank himself was a shadow of a figure when I was there. Really not involved on a day to day basis like I have no doubt he was in his prime. He just didn't have the strength or stamina by then and it is an absolute miracle that he is still actually alive today. I think the problem with Frank is that, by all accounts, he was a hard-faced bastard anyway before his accident and then afterwards his own quality of life was so compromised that he literally had no compassion whatsoever for anyone who could still wipe their own arse and didn't have to drink their food from a straw. It just made him even more hard-nosed about everything and everyone around him. It didn't really help much either that Patrick was basically a shaved, educated Neanderthal. Even worse than that, Sam Michael suddenly came out of nowhere and started emulating the same destructive behaviour.

I walked into all this mess at the end of 2004 and the atmosphere was like a cross between Mad Max, a funeral parlour and a scene out of 300! Mark Webber was totally deflated well before his first race for Williams and it was a real eye-opener for all the other decent drivers that came and went while I was there. Really decent intelligent guys like Alexander Wurz and Nick Heidfeld who just couldn't believe what they were getting involved with.

Well you know what they say about being best not to meet your heroes!
With such a reputation and serial lack of results how on earth do they keep going. What sponsor in its right mind would chuck money at them without doing due diligence. I guess young drivers are just glad of a seat and the exposure and the hope that they can impress sufficiently to find a better ride the following season. But it cannot be an easy decision to stick your head in the lions mouth for the duration. And a bad example, maybe, for your first experience of F1.
VG Petrol S http://www.porsche-code.com/PHIVCQU7           And a GT3 RS... by Lego! Not crash-tested! 😀

Deleted User 1874

Post by Deleted User 1874 »

Dandock wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:54 am
Peteski wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:43 am
Col Lamb wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:53 am For me Williams lost all credibility in the manner in which Nigel Mansell departed.

Lo and behold a few years later the same thing with Damon Hill.

Williams today are small fry, a make up the numbers team, zero potential, but that is the same for all but Mercedes, Ferrari and to an extent Red Bull.

Alas today it is not the sport that it once was, am I am not sure it will ever recover.

Keeping fingers crossed that the changes made this year will result in actual racing.
Well Frank and Patrick are not exactly renowned for their driver management skills (or any other sort of people management skills). I went to Williams with Mark Webber and saw first hand how he was treated and it very nearly destroyed his career at the time. Certainly put me right off the whole scene too and once I left in 2009 I was glad to see the back of F1 and I've hardly watched a race since. Doesn't look like much has changed since then. Pretty much everyone I know from Williams who had any sense moved on pretty quickly, which is yet another reason for its demise.

Frank himself was a shadow of a figure when I was there. Really not involved on a day to day basis like I have no doubt he was in his prime. He just didn't have the strength or stamina by then and it is an absolute miracle that he is still actually alive today. I think the problem with Frank is that, by all accounts, he was a hard-faced bastard anyway before his accident and then afterwards his own quality of life was so compromised that he literally had no compassion whatsoever for anyone who could still wipe their own arse and didn't have to drink their food from a straw. It just made him even more hard-nosed about everything and everyone around him. It didn't really help much either that Patrick was basically a shaved, educated Neanderthal. Even worse than that, Sam Michael suddenly came out of nowhere and started emulating the same destructive behaviour.

I walked into all this mess at the end of 2004 and the atmosphere was like a cross between Mad Max, a funeral parlour and a scene out of 300! Mark Webber was totally deflated well before his first race for Williams and it was a real eye-opener for all the other decent drivers that came and went while I was there. Really decent intelligent guys like Alexander Wurz and Nick Heidfeld who just couldn't believe what they were getting involved with.

Well you know what they say about being best not to meet your heroes!
With such a reputation and serial lack of results how on earth do they keep going. What sponsor in its right mind would chuck money at them without doing due diligence. I guess young drivers are just glad of a seat and the exposure and the hope that they can impress sufficiently to find a better ride the following season. But it cannot be an easy decision to stick your head in the lions mouth for the duration. And a bad example, maybe, for your first experience of F1.
Sponsors tend not to talk to the right people in the course of their due diligence. Young drivers of course will give anything a shot. It worked out pretty well for Nico Rosberg in the end. I expect the end is looming up for Williams and they must be right on the ragged edge financially. But like Frank himself they seem to keep going despite all the odds.
Macman
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Post by Macman »

As an F1 fan I find Peteski’s insight from his time at Williams is really interesting. I didn’t watch the programme on TV because I thought I’d seen it a few months back, but I’ll check if it’s the same one.

I enjoy watching F1 and usually go to a race at least once a year. I really hope Silverstone survives because it feels like the home of F1 to me. As with all sports you need some background knowledge about what’s going on behind the scenes to make them interesting. I get most of this by watching the build up to the races, practice sessions and qualifying, so it makes even the processional races interesting, but it’s a big time commitment when the practice tv programme goes on for 3 hours, qualifying 2 hours, race programme and follow up programmes several more hours.

My concerns are Liberty trying to increase the surrounding activities such as pop concerts etc, rather than focusing on making the racing closer. The move of car companies e.g. Porsche/Audi into Formula E, which I just can’t get interested in (maybe need to get more background info, but I think it’s the sound which leaves a huge hole in the race atmosphere and the narrow barriers they seem to race between). The fact that Liberty has no real background in F1, so they’re in it for the money and not much else.

Touring cars have a good solution for close racing and it’s a lot cheaper to go and see them, but manufacturers are becoming thin on the ground there, so they rely on the teams keeping going. They still use noisy petrol engines at least!
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GMAN75
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Post by GMAN75 »

Peteski wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:03 pm
Dandock wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:54 am
Peteski wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:43 am

Well Frank and Patrick are not exactly renowned for their driver management skills (or any other sort of people management skills). I went to Williams with Mark Webber and saw first hand how he was treated and it very nearly destroyed his career at the time. Certainly put me right off the whole scene too and once I left in 2009 I was glad to see the back of F1 and I've hardly watched a race since. Doesn't look like much has changed since then. Pretty much everyone I know from Williams who had any sense moved on pretty quickly, which is yet another reason for its demise.

Frank himself was a shadow of a figure when I was there. Really not involved on a day to day basis like I have no doubt he was in his prime. He just didn't have the strength or stamina by then and it is an absolute miracle that he is still actually alive today. I think the problem with Frank is that, by all accounts, he was a hard-faced bastard anyway before his accident and then afterwards his own quality of life was so compromised that he literally had no compassion whatsoever for anyone who could still wipe their own arse and didn't have to drink their food from a straw. It just made him even more hard-nosed about everything and everyone around him. It didn't really help much either that Patrick was basically a shaved, educated Neanderthal. Even worse than that, Sam Michael suddenly came out of nowhere and started emulating the same destructive behaviour.

I walked into all this mess at the end of 2004 and the atmosphere was like a cross between Mad Max, a funeral parlour and a scene out of 300! Mark Webber was totally deflated well before his first race for Williams and it was a real eye-opener for all the other decent drivers that came and went while I was there. Really decent intelligent guys like Alexander Wurz and Nick Heidfeld who just couldn't believe what they were getting involved with.

Well you know what they say about being best not to meet your heroes!
With such a reputation and serial lack of results how on earth do they keep going. What sponsor in its right mind would chuck money at them without doing due diligence. I guess young drivers are just glad of a seat and the exposure and the hope that they can impress sufficiently to find a better ride the following season. But it cannot be an easy decision to stick your head in the lions mouth for the duration. And a bad example, maybe, for your first experience of F1.
Sponsors tend not to talk to the right people in the course of their due diligence. Young drivers of course will give anything a shot. It worked out pretty well for Nico Rosberg in the end. I expect the end is looming up for Williams and they must be right on the ragged edge financially. But like Frank himself they seem to keep going despite all the odds.
I thought Williams was one of the few teams that actually managed to commercialise a lot of their F1 tech...hybrid systems, energy harvesting kit and I also thought they work closely with bespoke builders like Singer. That could be why they seem to survive. Plus, their R&D must be generating wicked tax breaks. Add all that up and you get a lot of supplementary support to their F1 sponsor revenues.
Col Lamb
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Post by Col Lamb »

Quite an insight, many thanks for that Peterski. You just confirmed everything that I thought about how Williams function. It confirms a long held belief of mine that ability and success are not mutually and irrevokably linked together.

2019 and Kubica is in a seat, just how can someone with such severe injuries compete? I do not think they can so I assume that he is paying megabucks for the seat. As has been shown in the past, pay for your seat and you get more power then the guy in the other seat who is either paid or contrubutes less cash to the team.

Roll onto today the start of testing and Williams are not ready to test, yep that is a great start to the season since there is less than a month to go before the start.
Col
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Dandock
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Post by Dandock »

Col Lamb wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:37 pm
Roll onto today the start of testing and Williams are not ready to test, yep that is a great start to the season since there is less than a month to go before the start.
They’re now saying Wednesday, Col, and there’s a belief by the watchers that it may even be Thursday. A day is one thing - a whole week must almost be a lifetime right now.

Oh... and McLaren have broken down on track. Deja vu!
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Deleted User 1874

Post by Deleted User 1874 »

GMAN75 wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:24 pm I thought Williams was one of the few teams that actually managed to commercialise a lot of their F1 tech...hybrid systems, energy harvesting kit and I also thought they work closely with bespoke builders like Singer. That could be why they seem to survive. Plus, their R&D must be generating wicked tax breaks. Add all that up and you get a lot of supplementary support to their F1 sponsor revenues.
That's all happened largely since I left the team. I would imagine the commercial side has probably grown up more out of necessity than ambition. It was always about the racing with Frank and Patrick. Literally nothing else in life mattered to them! Although Patrick did mellow with age and started focusing more on his boat at one point. Which was good because he wasn't hovering around intimidating people quite so much and dragging us back into an early 80's time warp!
happy days
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Post by happy days »

I thought it was a good programme. Poor Ginny - life with FW might have been hard enough before the accident never mind afterwards!
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Deleted User 1874

Post by Deleted User 1874 »

happy days wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:37 pm I thought it was a good programme. Poor Ginny - life with FW might have been hard enough before the accident never mind afterwards!
Yeah, Frank is not exactly a family man!
Dandock
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Post by Dandock »

Peteski wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:49 am
happy days wrote: Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:37 pm I thought it was a good programme. Poor Ginny - life with FW might have been hard enough before the accident never mind afterwards!
Yeah, Frank is not exactly a family man!
And, as it made clear, comes from the Bernie school of business morals.
VG Petrol S http://www.porsche-code.com/PHIVCQU7           And a GT3 RS... by Lego! Not crash-tested! 😀
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