Another one bites the dust. Honda closing Swindon

[johnd]

That is not the fault of the people that voted to leave it is the fault of the politicians who put party politics and personal views ahead of the those of the populous.

Agreed. Of course it isn't the fault of the people that voted to leave (or any other section of the electorate). But if we're seeking to apportion blame IMO it's ultimately Cameron's fault (no matter how nice a bloke he might be and no doubt egged on by Osborne, but Cameron was the boss) for deciding to hold a referendum on such a complex issue and without any real attempt to define what leave meant from amongst the myriad of possible interpretations.

I'm actually not against referendums per se, but they have to about straightforward issues that everyone can reach a decision about from their own life experience, eg should the voting or driving or alcohol/gambling age be lowered/raised or even around the death penalty (much though I suspect that I would personally disagree with the result). But Brexit is absolutely the wrong sort of issue for a referendum.

[GMAN75]

We live in a democracy, the majority voted to leave, its Parliaments responsibility to make that happen. The fact that the current government has completely screwed this up and the opposition is even more incompetent has got us to a position where no one really knows what the outcome is going to be. That is not the fault of the people that voted to leave it is the fault of the politicians who put party politics and personal views ahead of the those of the populous.

It seems that people are equally able to jump to conclusions and be insulting regardless of how they voted or their personal views.

NO. Your vote was premised on fiction!! I will go one further and say you voted for the undeliverable and, basically, lies. That is NOT, nor will it ever be, democracy. This "democracy" you all so lovingly hang your hats on is a bastardised version of true democracy. This is party politics. I suggest you understand the history of democracy before you go and rely on it. I'm done. Like I said, I wish you the best champion. You'll need it if what I know is anything to go by.

[Miopyk]

We live in a democracy, the majority voted to leave, its Parliaments responsibility to make that happen. The fact that the current government has completely screwed this up and the opposition is even more incompetent has got us to a position where no one really knows what the outcome is going to be. That is not the fault of the people that voted to leave it is the fault of the politicians who put party politics and personal views ahead of the those of the populous.

It seems that people are equally able to jump to conclusions and be insulting regardless of how they voted or their personal views.

NO. Your vote was premised on fiction!! I will go one further and say you voted for the undeliverable and, basically, lies. That is NOT, nor will it ever be, democracy. This "democracy" you all so lovingly hang your hats on is a bastardised version of true democracy. This is party politics. I suggest you understand the history of democracy before you go and rely on it. I'm done. Like I said, I wish you the best champion. You'll need it if what I know is anything to go by.

Actually I'm intelligent enough to make my decisions by formulating my own views and you cannot presume to know what those are or why I make the choices I make unless I explain them in detail which I suspect would hold no interest for you.

While I respect that you're entitled to your own opinion you are not entitled to be presumptuous about mine or for that matter be insulting. Please feel free to have another emotional outburst but don't be surprised if I choose not to respond.

[GMAN75]

We live in a democracy, the majority voted to leave, its Parliaments responsibility to make that happen. The fact that the current government has completely screwed this up and the opposition is even more incompetent has got us to a position where no one really knows what the outcome is going to be. That is not the fault of the people that voted to leave it is the fault of the politicians who put party politics and personal views ahead of the those of the populous.

It seems that people are equally able to jump to conclusions and be insulting regardless of how they voted or their personal views.

NO. Your vote was premised on fiction!! I will go one further and say you voted for the undeliverable and, basically, lies. That is NOT, nor will it ever be, democracy. This "democracy" you all so lovingly hang your hats on is a bastardised version of true democracy. This is party politics. I suggest you understand the history of democracy before you go and rely on it. I'm done. Like I said, I wish you the best champion. You'll need it if what I know is anything to go by.

Actually I'm intelligent enough to make my decisions by formulating my own views and you cannot presume to know what those are or why I make the choices I make unless I explain them in detail which I suspect would hold no interest for you.

While I respect that you're entitled to your own opinion you are not entitled to be presumptuous about mine or for that matter be insulting. Please feel free to have another emotional outburst but don't be surprised if I choose not to respond.

Here's your chance...astonish me with your views on how destabilising this country's economic future actually enhances its global standing. I'll wait.

[Miopyk]

That is not the fault of the people that voted to leave it is the fault of the politicians who put party politics and personal views ahead of the those of the populous.

Agreed. Of course it isn't the fault of the people that voted to leave (or any other section of the electorate). But if we're seeking to apportion blame IMO it's ultimately Cameron's fault (no matter how nice a bloke he might be and no doubt egged on by Osborne, but Cameron was the boss) for deciding to hold a referendum on such a complex issue and without any real attempt to define what leave meant from the myriad of options.

I'm actually not against referendums per se, but they have to about straightforward issues that everyone can reach a decision about from their own life experience, eg should the voting or driving or alcohol/gambling age be lowered/raised or even around the death penalty (much though I suspect that I would personally disagree with the result). But Brexit is absolutely the wrong sort of issue for a referendum.

I think you're probably right but we were presented with a question and chose to answer it however we saw fit. This has been an issue for the Tory's ever since we joined the Common Market and Cameron really didn't think this though with his referendum. I believe that de Gaulle was right when he prevented us from joining originally and that much of his argument from that time holds true today.

[Dandock]

Perfectly summed up!

[Miopyk]

Perfectly summed up!

Agreed, except when people allow their emotions to overcome their ability to have a civilised debate and they resort to insults. At that point they become merely entertaining for a short time and then irrelevant only to be ignored. Oh, and lets not call the whole thing off

[GMAN75]

Perfectly summed up!

Agreed, except when people allow their emotions to overcome their ability to have a civilised debate and they resort to insults. At that point they become merely entertaining for a short time and then irrelevant only to be ignored. Oh, and lets not call the whole thing off

I actually find it wholly amusing that when you give people the opportunity to explain their position, after they offer it, and then nothing comes of it, they somehow try and feel vindicated. Funny that right?? First time someone lives up to their online name.

[Macananon]

Perfectly summed up!

Agreed, except when people allow their emotions to overcome their ability to have a civilised debate and they resort to insults. At that point they become merely entertaining for a short time and then irrelevant only to be ignored. Oh, and lets not call the whole thing off

I actually find it wholly amusing that when you give people the opportunity to explain their position, after they offer it, and then nothing comes of it, they somehow try and feel vindicated. Funny that right?? First time someone lives up to their online name.

So what is it with democracy that you don't actually like?? A far greater percentage on the population voted for Brexit than have ever voted for any particular political party to run the country?????

[Pivot]

I find it astonishing that most people don’t understand that leaving the EU, Britain is effectively imposing sanctions against its business, its people, and pets.

I saw this in London today, humorous, but rather sad, as I like to take my pets with me when I travel!