Retro fitting a 7Kw charging circuit to a Panamera e-hybrid

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uktivo
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:27 pm

Post by uktivo »

Hi all,

Not posted for a while but have been reading with interest. I'm selling my Macan Turbo and decided to have a Panamera Turbo S e-Hybrid (pic below if anyone is interested).
It's a used car with the standard charging circuit (32 amps) but I've been trying to find out if I can upgrade it to a 7Kw charging circuit. I've asked the dealer but i'm not confident they knew the answer. So my question is, does any one know if it's possible to do please?

20190514_155819.jpg

20190514_155756.jpg

My Porsche history
944 (sold)
911 (992.1 - sold)
Macan Turbo (sold)
Panamera turbo S E Hybrid (sold)
Cayenne sport (the bosses)
Taycan Turbo loving it.

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Ian.g
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Location: Worcestershire

Post by Ian.g »

Forgive my possible ignorance here, but 32 Amps is just over 7kW. So don’t you already have a 7kW circuit?
uktivo
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:27 pm

Post by uktivo »

No ignorance to forgive.. it's a minefield out there on this subject...
I have to be honest and thought the same as you but if you look at the screen grabs below, one shows the car im getting and the other is another panamera that shows a 7.2kw charger..

20190519_221313.jpg

20190519_221254.jpg

My Porsche history
944 (sold)
911 (992.1 - sold)
Macan Turbo (sold)
Panamera turbo S E Hybrid (sold)
Cayenne sport (the bosses)
Taycan Turbo loving it.
uktivo
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:27 pm

Post by uktivo »

More info AND if I'm reading this right, I think the standard 3.6kw car WILL charge more quickly if it is plugged into a type 2 to type 2 more powerful single phase or even 3 phase unit, the likes of which the public chargers are.

I have 3 phase 400v 125amp distribution at work, so I'm sure I can get the car to charge fully within 4 hours or so using the correct cable. (NOT the cable provided with the car that has a 3 pin plug on it).

Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.. or just misguided.. (which I am quite frequently)

I grabbed this info off the online USA manual for the Panamera.

Screenshot 2019-05-20 at 15.12.10.png

My Porsche history
944 (sold)
911 (992.1 - sold)
Macan Turbo (sold)
Panamera turbo S E Hybrid (sold)
Cayenne sport (the bosses)
Taycan Turbo loving it.
davewf
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Post by davewf »

Hybrids are generally slow chargers because the battery is small compared to a fully electric vehicle so the car itself will be doing the limiting regardless of what's available. It will charge reasonably quick to 80% but then take an age to get to 100% to protect the battery.

Same as an Electric car, whose users generally only charge up to 80% when on a long journey and only really get to 100% at home or overnight at a hotel.

Youtube channel FullyCharged is a mine of info on charging etc. watch this from 2:54 for interesting info on Hybrids charging time.
johnd
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Post by johnd »

Isn't the question you're asking whether it's possible to upgrade a single phase charger to a 3-phase charger? But the starting point would have to be finding out the type of charger that is fitted to UK spec Panamera hybrids (which might or might not be the same as other EU or US spec cars). I know there's been a lot of resentment from I-Pace owners in Europe because the built-in charger is single phase only which is fine in the UK where domestic supply other than single phase is rare, but domestic 3-phase is more readily available on the continent.

BTW I'd have guessed that a 3-phase charger would deliver around 11kW (if it were 16A/phase) or 22kW if 32A per phase. See eg:

https://www.spiritenergy.co.uk/kb-ev-un ... r-charging
Macan SD (Rhodium) www.porsche-code.com/PH4H6XU3 June 2016

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uktivo
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:27 pm

Post by uktivo »

johnd wrote: Mon May 20, 2019 5:44 pm Isn't the question you're asking whether it's possible to upgrade a single phase charger to a 3-phase charger? But the starting point would have to be finding out the type of charger that is fitted to UK spec Panamera hybrids (which might or might not be the same as other EU or US spec cars). I know there's been a lot of resentment from I-Pace owners in Europe because the built-in charger is single phase only which is fine in the UK where domestic supply other than single phase is rare, but domestic 3-phase is more readily available on the continent.

BTW I'd have guessed that a 3-phase charger would deliver around 11kW (if it were 16A/phase) or 22kW if 32A per phase. See eg:

https://www.spiritenergy.co.uk/kb-ev-un ... r-charging

It is. Im surprised how little information the dealer has/ knows about this. It's been left to me to research and hope I've got the right information.

Im not sure what type of socket the standard panamera comes with but im assuming type 2 because every site I've looked away for cables etc. All say this..

Public charges can operate at 3.6kw / 7.2kw / 11kw and 22kw depending on your vehicle capabilities and cable used.

From what I've read and the manual clip above backs it up to a degree, if you use the public or private charger capable of the above kw figures, along with the correct cable (not the 3pin 32amp PILL type that comes with the car) then the standard car will charge more quickly, around 4 hours from flat to charged.

Anyway. I've ordered a cable just for the hell of it. My charger install at work will happen soon, I have 415v 100amps x 3 coming into the building and distribution boards that can handle either 3 phase or single phase 125amps. I will give it a go and report back...
My Porsche history
944 (sold)
911 (992.1 - sold)
Macan Turbo (sold)
Panamera turbo S E Hybrid (sold)
Cayenne sport (the bosses)
Taycan Turbo loving it.
Col Lamb
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Location: Lancashire

Post by Col Lamb »

uktivo wrote: Mon May 20, 2019 3:18 pm More info AND if I'm reading this right, I think the standard 3.6kw car WILL charge more quickly if it is plugged into a type 2 to type 2 more powerful single phase or even 3 phase unit, the likes of which the public chargers are.

I have 3 phase 400v 125amp distribution at work, so I'm sure I can get the car to charge fully within 4 hours or so using the correct cable. (NOT the cable provided with the car that has a 3 pin plug on it).

Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.. or just misguided.. (which I am quite frequently)

I grabbed this info off the online USA manual for the Panamera.
To charge at work on your 3 phase 400v supply or any other such electrical supply you will need a suitable charger, it is not as simple as a different plug lead unless that is the charging circuit is smart and knows what the charger is capable of. Either way a 3 phase charger will still be required to take advantage if the incoming supply

BTW, 400v is what is measured between phases where each phase is 240v it is not a supply that gives 400v at each phase. The speed and efficiency of charging is achieved by spreading the charging load over each of the 3 phases.

You will more than likely have a 3 phase supply available at home or rather just outside it in the road. In supplying electricity to the houses on any road you will probably find that for three adjacent houses each one will be on a different phase. So if you want three phase in your garage you should be able to get it installed but at a cost and no doubt after a long wait. My Brother was quoted 9 months for an upgraded 3 phase supply to be installed to his business, but you will find timescales are on a postcode lottery basis.
Col
Macan Turbo
Air, 20” wheels, ACC, Pano, SurCam, 14w, LEDs, PS+, Int Light Pack, Heated seats and Steering, spare wheel, SC, Privacy glass, PDK gear, SD mirrors, Met Black, rear airbags
davewf
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Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:35 pm

Post by davewf »

You are totally dependant on the battery management system in the car it doesn't matter how much current you can throw at the car it will only take what the management system deems appropriate.

If the car has a 7Kw capability it will actually only take 7Kw for a very short time before the management system limits the current, this will be based on temperature of the battery and no doubt a mass of other prarameters. No harm in fitting a super fast charger though because you will no doubt be buying an electric car in the future that can accept the input so you are future proofing yourself.

It was interesting to read that FastNed a dutch charging company spotted a Porsche Taycan charging on one of their 150Kw chargers, they get the car info when the CCS plug is plugged in and can see charging data. Apparently it charged at 150KW far longer before limiting itself than any other car has. That bodes well for Porsche Electric car's ability to fast charge.

They actually liquid cool the cable from the charge station to the car such is the load.
uktivo
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:27 pm

Post by uktivo »

It's all exciting stuff..
Col. Correct the pod im fitting is a 3 phase sensing one, so will adjust its charge automatically..

Dave.
Correct about future proofing. I hear what you are saying about the cars capability, heat etc.. but im stil convinced the standard car will charge quicker with the type 2 cable plugged into the smart charger.. time will tell.. as I say, I will report back my findings.. that's if anyone is interested if course..
My Porsche history
944 (sold)
911 (992.1 - sold)
Macan Turbo (sold)
Panamera turbo S E Hybrid (sold)
Cayenne sport (the bosses)
Taycan Turbo loving it.
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