Taycan Official Launch

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Red5
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Post by Red5 »

The allure of the Tesla experience, is very real!
A friend of mine is a computer / tech development engineer for them and has taken me in cars a few times, while they’re undergoing calibration. It’s quite a thing and for a daily car, hard to imagine beating!

In a luxury vehicle, who wants to hear an engine anyway?


Porsche has a habit of managing to make a vehicle, perform to a level, far beyond the sum of its parts.
In fact, I’d say that that has been their usp of late.
(They make some massive mistakes too from time to time)

...So I think the Teycan might well be an example of this occurrence.
Given the naming strategy though, I really feel embarrassed for them too :oops:


Just think how far the established brands could have come, had they not been so stubbornly sandbagging.
EV means the death of a huge part of their profits, so I do understand why they hated the idea. Who wants to shoot themselves in the foot?
They even went so far, as to make all the early EV offerings look like poo!

Tesla ONLY wanted to make EV vehicles, so where never so shackled. They also had all that PayPal money and an owner with a single minded meniacle focus to forge a new way.
I applaud their existence and can only hope that their star is not shining too brightly :shock:

If I was offered one though regardless of price, I might chose the Teycan.
Plenty of folk are so comfortable lay off, that these value for money / price difference don’t matter. They might well have a Tesla as well!

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Pivot
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Post by Pivot »

Interesting point on the ZF transmission... watch this space:

https://www.wired.com/story/electric-car-two-speed-transmission-gearbox/
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Wing Commander
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Post by Wing Commander »

Regarding value for money of the “Turbo” and “Turbo S” I feel that the launch of the ‘base’ Taycan will be a relatively new ball game, in the same way that a Carrera could be seen as far better ‘value for money’ than say a 911 Turbo S.

When the base Taycan is priced between the ‘cheapest’ Panamera and a base Carrera, it’s been widely road tested and potential buyers can see it in the metal in dealers, the demand will be massive.

And unless Tesla up their game, the showroom appeal of the Taycan, including build quality and feel good factor, will be streets ahead.

Roll on Porsche working on a competitor to the Tesla Model 3! :)
Simon

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Deleted User 1874

Post by Deleted User 1874 »

Wing Commander wrote: Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:59 am Regarding value for money of the “Turbo” and “Turbo S” I feel that the launch of the ‘base’ Taycan will be a relatively new ball game, in the same way that a Carrera could be seen as far better ‘value for money’ than say a 911 Turbo S.

When the base Taycan is priced between the ‘cheapest’ Panamera and a base Carrera, it’s been widely road tested and potential buyers can see it in the metal in dealers, the demand will be massive.

And unless Tesla up their game, the showroom appeal of the Taycan, including build quality and feel good factor, will be streets ahead.

Roll on Porsche working on a competitor to the Tesla Model 3! :)
As usual when talking of "Tesla killers" it is all just future speculation. Right now (and for the last few years) it is Porsche that are losing sales to Tesla. I've lost count of the ex-Panny drivers on the Tesla owners Facebook page.

The game moves on every year and Tesla are certainly not standing still. I saw a Model 3 parked at the supermarket last night. First of many I expect. Already starting to see them quite regularly on the road.
Deleted User 1874

Post by Deleted User 1874 »

Red5 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:05 pm
Just think how far the established brands could have come, had they not been so stubbornly sandbagging.
EV means the death of a huge part of their profits, so I do understand why they hated the idea. Who wants to shoot themselves in the foot?
They even went so far, as to make all the early EV offerings look like poo!
Absolutely true. They simply didn't want to make the change to EV and now they are being forced into it. Tesla are 100% committed and it has really shown over the last 5 years or so!
Deleted User 1874

Post by Deleted User 1874 »

Pivot wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:55 pm Interesting point on the ZF transmission... watch this space:

https://www.wired.com/story/electric-car-two-speed-transmission-gearbox/
I did notice it had a 2-speed box, on one axle only I think. Tesla considered 2-speed vs singlespeed on the original Roadster more than a decade ago and concluded that it wasn't worth the cost, weight, complexity. I can see the potential advantage at very high speed, but with a 70 mph speed limit and cameras everywhere you look, what's the point?
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Red5
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Post by Red5 »

Peteski wrote: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:04 am
Pivot wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:55 pm Interesting point on the ZF transmission... watch this space:

https://www.wired.com/story/electric-car-two-speed-transmission-gearbox/
I did notice it had a 2-speed box, on one axle only I think. Tesla considered 2-speed vs singlespeed on the original Roadster more than a decade ago and concluded that it wasn't worth the cost, weight, complexity. I can see the potential advantage at very high speed, but with a 70 mph speed limit and cameras everywhere you look, what's the point?
Porsche’s prioritise different areas than Tesla that’s all.

Also, a lot has changed from an engineering perspective in the last decade too. Especially relating to packaging!

Tesla are sensible (and logical) in their approach for their cars, but Porsche make cars in a land that still has some de-restricted roads 8-)
(We will be using some before the month is out)

Building a variant that has dramatically tailing off performance into three figures, just isn’t cricket for them, or their customers expectations.

Porsche buyers have by default, never made the most logical choices :oops:
They are rather silly and enjoy wasting money in exchange for performance they can’t / won’t use. They insist on it :lol:
Deleted User 1874

Post by Deleted User 1874 »

Red5 wrote: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:49 am
Building a variant that has dramatically tailing off performance into three figures, just isn’t cricket for them, or their customers expectations.
True enough.

Be interesting to see how the gearing actually affects top end performance. In any case a Model S is still pretty damn quick up to around 120 mph and then I believe it does tail off rapidly compared to ICE supercars. But all pretty academic in the real world.

However I did notice that the Taycan is even heavier than the considerably larger Model S, which is definitely not a good thing in the real world. Excessive weight is a major concern for any EV, especially if handling is a priority, so adding another gearbox for marginal high speed gain may not be the best idea.

So I remain somewhat unconvinced on that particular design choice, but I can certainly see why they did it.
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PaulR
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Post by PaulR »

The good news - the Taycan doesn't have fake exhausts. Have to admit, that is such a relief. The bad news - it has an 'electric sport sound'. And Porsche being Porsche, that's an optional extra of course.
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Pivot
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Post by Pivot »

Peteski wrote: I did notice it had a 2-speed box, on one axle only I think. Tesla considered 2-speed vs singlespeed on the original Roadster more than a decade ago and concluded that it wasn't worth the cost, weight, complexity. I can see the potential advantage at very high speed, but with a 70 mph speed limit and cameras everywhere you look, what's the point?
According to Porsche the point is +5% better efficiency... that is an engineering problem and the relative number will increase over time.

The issue is immense torque of electric engine breaking gears. Looks like ZF is 3-years from democratising the electric engine - transmission combo. We need new materials and/or new design.
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