Some photos would be good when it finally arrives.
The start of goodbye
New Audi Q3 Sportback 45 TFSI Vorsprung in Dew Silver delivered a couple of weeks back (700 miles up now) - here are some early impressions.
First, a word of background. My previous drive was a Porsche Macan SD which I ran for 3.5 years. An excellent car, but I gradually grew to wanting something half a size smaller, narrower and a little more nimble-feeling, but still a premium 4WD 4/5-seater compact SUV with decent performance. To be clear, I've grown attached to Porsche as a marque and if there was something resembling a Porsche Q3 then almost certainly I would have opted for that. But it doesn't (exist) and so I was forced to look elsewhere.
I discovered that the only real contender was the new Evoque P300, but it turns out that this is certainly shorter, but no lighter or narrower than the Macan! And while the cabin is undoubtedly premium, there were various details on the dash design & layout that I didn't take to. And then there's the question mark over JLR quality & reliability (which is maybe less of an issue these days, but the concern still lingers). For some reason, I'm allergic to BMWs; and the Merc GLA would have been an option but the existing GLA is an old car now and the new GLA is not due until next year (and ditto the E-Pace, except that might be further into the future).
So I had to lower my sights a little and the two cars in the frame were the new Q3 and the Volvo XC40 T5, which were pretty evenly matched in my book, each with pros and cons - XC40 probably a nicer design overall with many neat design touches but I really struggled to get on with the Volvo infotainment screen. The clincher was the Q3 SB being on significantly quicker delivery. I had had major reservations about the standard Q3 styling, but the SB launch was enough of an improvement to bite the bullet.
To the new Q3 SB itself: Early conclusion is that it was indeed a positive move and, in particular, I definitely prefer the lighter, nimbler feel of the Q3 to the Macan. Specifics:
I'm still irritated at being 'forced' into the top Vorsprung trim, which happened for two reasons. First, I didn't want the ginormous chrome grille, so the black pack was required. But I also wanted adaptive dampers so - in the new Audi regime of very limited options - the only option was Vorsprung.
The ride on the unavoidable 20" wheels is - to me - only just on the acceptable side of adequate, even with AD. It's quite significantly worse than the Macan and marginal on some of the poorer roads of rural England. Why oh why Audi don't allow at least a drop to 19" is just beyond me - it's not doing their reputation any favours.
Styling: I had to order the SB before they hit the showrooms so it was a gamble. Overall the styling is OK (which is more than faint praise from me - OK = satisfactory or 7/10, but not highly satisfactory, excellent or outstanding!). Front and back are fine (other than that stupid extra piece of trim that twirls around the rear diffuser area). Side view I'm less happy with - not sure whether it's the black pack or Vorsprung trim or SB styling (or perhaps the combination of all three) but the black plastic trims around the wheel arches and especially below the doors end up making the side profile look rather gawky - I'd have preferred body colour all the way down and I really don't need it to try and look like a faux Land Rover. Absence of roof rails is good in my book and makes for a cleaner looking styling.
I also had to specify the colour sight unseen. Not very impressed with the Q3 colour palette and TBH something called silver was the least offensive option there for me. In reality, 'silver' is stretching a point - it's that light beigey-grey colour that seems to be very much in vogue with car makers at present. It's OK, but I'm not in love with it.
Inside, again OK, but it's definitely not in the premium car segment. Important details are missing like memory on the seats and a heated steering wheel is not even an option, which is plain odd these days. Having a couple of variable-colour LED strips on the doors is a cheapskate way of suggesting premium. And certainly forget about HUD or any hint of leather on the dash. Audi are not alone in this attitude. It's like all car makers are scared to make their smaller cars too nice a place to be irrespective of what they charge for it, presumably in case it robs sales from models higher up the range. As above, the only maker that seems to me to take a different view is JLR with the Evoque.
Seats, again OK but definitely not as comfortable or generous as the Macan. However, seating position has a wide choice of settings and access is better judged than the Macan.
Driving ergonomics are relatively good and in a different (better) league to the Macan which, for all its impressive cockpit-like array of buttons, I never found easy and quick to access even after years of ownership. There's a lot of tech in the Q3, which doesn't phase me at all but still takes time for familiarisation to get to the point where pretty much anything you want to do becomes second nature.
There are some niggles, like why is the lane-keeping on the end of a stalk rather than in the main menu and why can't I set the default for this to be off. But my only real complaint thus far is that the heating seems to switch abruptly from blowing warm air to cooler air as a way of holding cabin temperature - so one moment you feel comfortably warm but the next your arms/hands are aware of becoming uncomfortably cooler - maybe I don't have the settings properly optimised yet? Also, like most modern cars, the software doesn't seem bulletproof. A few times, driving along the MMI Nav screen has flipped uncommanded to the phone screen, despite there being no incoming calls or texts.
Some aspects of the ergonomics are worth singling out: the toggle between Drive and Sport on the gear-change is so simple and intuitive. And the Auto Hold on the brakes works perfectly IME thus far. And Google Maps on the MMI screen works well (I am used to GM in my Macan). The Q3 display is a little different, maybe not quite as crisp but a slightly larger screen, but on a par with the Macan overall.
Performance of the 45 TFSI again is OK, but nothing to write home about - maybe on a par with the 2l Macan. Remember that I was after an SUV with decent performance so I set the benchmark reasonably high (though probably not at RSQ3 levels). I do miss the mid-range diesel torque of the Macan, but I knew that was always on the cards. I always thought that what I wanted was an SQ3 and my 45 TFSI experience thus far has confirmed that - I'd be happy with a 5sec 0-60 and mid-range performance to match, ideally with an Overtake button on the wheel
. If no SQ3 appears then I might look at the tuning aftermarket, unless I get tempted by the XC40 Recharge (the full EV version) when that launches this time next year.
In case anyone's interested in costs: The Q3 SB Vorsprung is an expensive car for what it is, listing around £49.5K OTR with a couple of minor options added (storage pack & spare wheel). I did a p/e on the Macan (2016 SD reasonably well but not excessively optioned with around 34K miles and £56K original cost) with a cash cost to change of around £16K. As ever, difficult to apportion the shares between p/e and Q3 discount, but it would have been somewhere around £30K for the Macan and 8-9% discount on the (newly-launched) Q3 SB. Almost certainly I could have got another £2-3K, maybe a bit more, with a private sale and haggling for maximum discount, but other priorities in my life at present and I'm not unhappy with the deal. One redeeming feature of the Vorsprung trim is that almost all available options are included, so maybe that will help resale value a little when the time comes.
So, overall, I have no real regrets about the move to the Q3 - it's an enjoyable car to drive and I do appreciate having something slightly smaller and lighter than the Macan. But it needs some more premium features in the cabin and maybe 10-20% more performance to be the ideal car for me.
First, a word of background. My previous drive was a Porsche Macan SD which I ran for 3.5 years. An excellent car, but I gradually grew to wanting something half a size smaller, narrower and a little more nimble-feeling, but still a premium 4WD 4/5-seater compact SUV with decent performance. To be clear, I've grown attached to Porsche as a marque and if there was something resembling a Porsche Q3 then almost certainly I would have opted for that. But it doesn't (exist) and so I was forced to look elsewhere.
I discovered that the only real contender was the new Evoque P300, but it turns out that this is certainly shorter, but no lighter or narrower than the Macan! And while the cabin is undoubtedly premium, there were various details on the dash design & layout that I didn't take to. And then there's the question mark over JLR quality & reliability (which is maybe less of an issue these days, but the concern still lingers). For some reason, I'm allergic to BMWs; and the Merc GLA would have been an option but the existing GLA is an old car now and the new GLA is not due until next year (and ditto the E-Pace, except that might be further into the future).
So I had to lower my sights a little and the two cars in the frame were the new Q3 and the Volvo XC40 T5, which were pretty evenly matched in my book, each with pros and cons - XC40 probably a nicer design overall with many neat design touches but I really struggled to get on with the Volvo infotainment screen. The clincher was the Q3 SB being on significantly quicker delivery. I had had major reservations about the standard Q3 styling, but the SB launch was enough of an improvement to bite the bullet.
To the new Q3 SB itself: Early conclusion is that it was indeed a positive move and, in particular, I definitely prefer the lighter, nimbler feel of the Q3 to the Macan. Specifics:
I'm still irritated at being 'forced' into the top Vorsprung trim, which happened for two reasons. First, I didn't want the ginormous chrome grille, so the black pack was required. But I also wanted adaptive dampers so - in the new Audi regime of very limited options - the only option was Vorsprung.
The ride on the unavoidable 20" wheels is - to me - only just on the acceptable side of adequate, even with AD. It's quite significantly worse than the Macan and marginal on some of the poorer roads of rural England. Why oh why Audi don't allow at least a drop to 19" is just beyond me - it's not doing their reputation any favours.
Styling: I had to order the SB before they hit the showrooms so it was a gamble. Overall the styling is OK (which is more than faint praise from me - OK = satisfactory or 7/10, but not highly satisfactory, excellent or outstanding!). Front and back are fine (other than that stupid extra piece of trim that twirls around the rear diffuser area). Side view I'm less happy with - not sure whether it's the black pack or Vorsprung trim or SB styling (or perhaps the combination of all three) but the black plastic trims around the wheel arches and especially below the doors end up making the side profile look rather gawky - I'd have preferred body colour all the way down and I really don't need it to try and look like a faux Land Rover. Absence of roof rails is good in my book and makes for a cleaner looking styling.
I also had to specify the colour sight unseen. Not very impressed with the Q3 colour palette and TBH something called silver was the least offensive option there for me. In reality, 'silver' is stretching a point - it's that light beigey-grey colour that seems to be very much in vogue with car makers at present. It's OK, but I'm not in love with it.
Inside, again OK, but it's definitely not in the premium car segment. Important details are missing like memory on the seats and a heated steering wheel is not even an option, which is plain odd these days. Having a couple of variable-colour LED strips on the doors is a cheapskate way of suggesting premium. And certainly forget about HUD or any hint of leather on the dash. Audi are not alone in this attitude. It's like all car makers are scared to make their smaller cars too nice a place to be irrespective of what they charge for it, presumably in case it robs sales from models higher up the range. As above, the only maker that seems to me to take a different view is JLR with the Evoque.
Seats, again OK but definitely not as comfortable or generous as the Macan. However, seating position has a wide choice of settings and access is better judged than the Macan.
Driving ergonomics are relatively good and in a different (better) league to the Macan which, for all its impressive cockpit-like array of buttons, I never found easy and quick to access even after years of ownership. There's a lot of tech in the Q3, which doesn't phase me at all but still takes time for familiarisation to get to the point where pretty much anything you want to do becomes second nature.
There are some niggles, like why is the lane-keeping on the end of a stalk rather than in the main menu and why can't I set the default for this to be off. But my only real complaint thus far is that the heating seems to switch abruptly from blowing warm air to cooler air as a way of holding cabin temperature - so one moment you feel comfortably warm but the next your arms/hands are aware of becoming uncomfortably cooler - maybe I don't have the settings properly optimised yet? Also, like most modern cars, the software doesn't seem bulletproof. A few times, driving along the MMI Nav screen has flipped uncommanded to the phone screen, despite there being no incoming calls or texts.
Some aspects of the ergonomics are worth singling out: the toggle between Drive and Sport on the gear-change is so simple and intuitive. And the Auto Hold on the brakes works perfectly IME thus far. And Google Maps on the MMI screen works well (I am used to GM in my Macan). The Q3 display is a little different, maybe not quite as crisp but a slightly larger screen, but on a par with the Macan overall.
Performance of the 45 TFSI again is OK, but nothing to write home about - maybe on a par with the 2l Macan. Remember that I was after an SUV with decent performance so I set the benchmark reasonably high (though probably not at RSQ3 levels). I do miss the mid-range diesel torque of the Macan, but I knew that was always on the cards. I always thought that what I wanted was an SQ3 and my 45 TFSI experience thus far has confirmed that - I'd be happy with a 5sec 0-60 and mid-range performance to match, ideally with an Overtake button on the wheel
. If no SQ3 appears then I might look at the tuning aftermarket, unless I get tempted by the XC40 Recharge (the full EV version) when that launches this time next year.In case anyone's interested in costs: The Q3 SB Vorsprung is an expensive car for what it is, listing around £49.5K OTR with a couple of minor options added (storage pack & spare wheel). I did a p/e on the Macan (2016 SD reasonably well but not excessively optioned with around 34K miles and £56K original cost) with a cash cost to change of around £16K. As ever, difficult to apportion the shares between p/e and Q3 discount, but it would have been somewhere around £30K for the Macan and 8-9% discount on the (newly-launched) Q3 SB. Almost certainly I could have got another £2-3K, maybe a bit more, with a private sale and haggling for maximum discount, but other priorities in my life at present and I'm not unhappy with the deal. One redeeming feature of the Vorsprung trim is that almost all available options are included, so maybe that will help resale value a little when the time comes.
So, overall, I have no real regrets about the move to the Q3 - it's an enjoyable car to drive and I do appreciate having something slightly smaller and lighter than the Macan. But it needs some more premium features in the cabin and maybe 10-20% more performance to be the ideal car for me.
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Nuclear Nick
- Posts: 3816
- Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:42 pm
- Location: Bristol
Thanks johnd for a comprehensive and honest review. Clearly it’s a challenge for anyone to find their ideal car, especially having experienced Porsche ownership. It’s frustrating to be forced into choices that the manufacturers decide, and their designers too are producing features that they think we all should like. A bit like trendy architects producing some of the horrendous monstrosities blighting the landscape these days. Let’s hope the future brings something better for us to consider when we move on from our Macans.
Nick
Defender 90 V8
991.2 C2 GTS
Macan Turbo - sold
BMW K1300S, BMW R1250 GSA
Defender 90 V8
991.2 C2 GTS
Macan Turbo - sold
BMW K1300S, BMW R1250 GSA
I agree with "Nick"
I thought it was an excellent review. Some of the spec issues come from the post WLTP issue of manufacturers packaging options or restricting certain ones to top-spec cars.
I had thought of waiting for a Q3 rather than buying my Macan. The "ride" issue means I am glad I proceeded with the Macan despite its size being the maximum I would buy. Width put me off the Evoque.
I thought it was an excellent review. Some of the spec issues come from the post WLTP issue of manufacturers packaging options or restricting certain ones to top-spec cars.
I had thought of waiting for a Q3 rather than buying my Macan. The "ride" issue means I am glad I proceeded with the Macan despite its size being the maximum I would buy. Width put me off the Evoque.
Last edited by pmg on Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
2019 Macan S Porsche code PKW8WKI8
Thanks for the comments, chaps. One other point that I meant to add is that it's quite refreshing to be driving a petrol car again, after the diesel. Worth saying that I think diesel has been unfairly demonised - I suspect that a modern diesel is actually much cleaner than it's being given credit for, often unfairly being lumped in with diesels as a generic group, including all sorts of 10-15 year-old vehicles, many seemingly badly maintained.
But from a practical point of view, it is refreshing not even to have to think about the Adblue level nor to roughly keep track of the recent short journeys I might have made to decide when a longer/speedier trip out might be sensible in the interests of DPF maintenance. And any concerns about SD resale value has obviously evaporated too. Never was a _big_ deal, but just one less thing to worry about now. Of course the downside is that I'm looking at a 400 mile max range now on a full tank rather than the 600 miles that wasn't uncommon with the SD, so that's probably 3 fill-ups per month rather than two, albeit with a smaller hit to the card/bank balance each time.
Oh, and one other thing. This Macan forum seems head and shoulders above many others (including the Q3 one) in terms of the quality and insights of the posts and posters. Suspect that looking in here will be a difficult habit to kick!
But from a practical point of view, it is refreshing not even to have to think about the Adblue level nor to roughly keep track of the recent short journeys I might have made to decide when a longer/speedier trip out might be sensible in the interests of DPF maintenance. And any concerns about SD resale value has obviously evaporated too. Never was a _big_ deal, but just one less thing to worry about now. Of course the downside is that I'm looking at a 400 mile max range now on a full tank rather than the 600 miles that wasn't uncommon with the SD, so that's probably 3 fill-ups per month rather than two, albeit with a smaller hit to the card/bank balance each time.
Oh, and one other thing. This Macan forum seems head and shoulders above many others (including the Q3 one) in terms of the quality and insights of the posts and posters. Suspect that looking in here will be a difficult habit to kick!
That is a really good write-up!
I was looking at the “yet to be launched” SQ3......but I’ve ordered at 911
Great insights into the real world pros and cons of the 2 types of car
I was looking at the “yet to be launched” SQ3......but I’ve ordered at 911
Great insights into the real world pros and cons of the 2 types of car
1st Sapphire SD
2nd Sapphire GTS
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4296
Current 992 S Cab
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=9845&p=196465#p196465
2nd Sapphire GTS
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4296
Current 992 S Cab
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=9845&p=196465#p196465
Great and candid write up on your Q3 experience-to-date Johnd.
i have a similar dilemma and ideally would want a slightly smaller car than the Macan. I like to change cars every 3 years. I am entirely happy with my May 2017 SD and it continues to deliver that elusive blend of pace, comfort, luxury and fuel economy.
I have an aversion to the Russian Doll styling of several manufacturers and really do not want a "stuck on the dash iPad" style screen.
I have never had a repeat same make / model car for my own use, but having studied the alternatives, the Macan is still the best 4-door / seater for my needs it seems. So i'm off to my OPC next week to take a serious look at the facelift S.
Also to enquire if there is news on the date of the facelift GTS and indeed the 2021 MY Macan 2. I do not want and EV or plug-in hybrid though.
i have a similar dilemma and ideally would want a slightly smaller car than the Macan. I like to change cars every 3 years. I am entirely happy with my May 2017 SD and it continues to deliver that elusive blend of pace, comfort, luxury and fuel economy.
I have an aversion to the Russian Doll styling of several manufacturers and really do not want a "stuck on the dash iPad" style screen.
I have never had a repeat same make / model car for my own use, but having studied the alternatives, the Macan is still the best 4-door / seater for my needs it seems. So i'm off to my OPC next week to take a serious look at the facelift S.
Also to enquire if there is news on the date of the facelift GTS and indeed the 2021 MY Macan 2. I do not want and EV or plug-in hybrid though.
Steve
2020 GTS in Sapphire Blue
(sold) 2017 SD in Rhodium Silver
2020 GTS in Sapphire Blue
(sold) 2017 SD in Rhodium Silver
^^
(to reassure; the latest Q3 has the full MIME binnacle and the other screen is now part of the dash)
(to reassure; the latest Q3 has the full MIME binnacle and the other screen is now part of the dash
)1st Sapphire SD
2nd Sapphire GTS
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4296
Current 992 S Cab
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=9845&p=196465#p196465
2nd Sapphire GTS
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4296
Current 992 S Cab
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=9845&p=196465#p196465
NB There will be better pictures around I'm sure - this one doesn't do justice to the size and impact of the displays.
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