PTV+ A review.

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notsomadmick
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Post by notsomadmick »

There have been previous discussions about the benefits of spec’ing PTV+ or not.
I always believed my second SD drove much better with PTV+, than my first one without it. So yesterday down at the PEC I made it an aim to learn a little more about it. I did arrive at an answer.

Conditions were damp/dry.
I am an advanced motorist and have tracked cars over many years.

The instructor I had was excellent. He understood my needs and did everything he could to help me get the best from my afternoon. His opening comment was interesting: “I think PTV+ is something that will probably only be of benefit on a race track, or in poor weather.”

We compared 2 Macans - (both with 40Kg of sunroof in the roof.)

Macan DS with:
1. Air Suspension
2. PASM
3. 21 inch wheels

Macan GTS with:
1. PASM
2. PTV+
3. 20 inch wheels.

Obviously there is a small degree of difference in the suspension between these two models – but they do share the same basic chassis and weigh a similar amount. The instructor’s view was that an SD with PASM/AS & 21s would be a good match to a GTS with PASM (w/o AS) - and shod on 20s.


We set the SD to ‘Sport plus’ and duly lowered the car the full 25mm. The car handled well, although there was more body roll than I expected for this setting. Around the figure of 8 loop, we increased the speed progressively until we hit 32 mph. Above that speed, the nose under-steered wide of the lane markings.
At the point of under-steer the front end of the car felt ‘nervous’ and sort of ‘on and off’ hopped side ways. The feeling through the steering wheel was not rewarding and ‘feel’ was limited. We then tried the car in ‘Sport.’ This made little discernable difference and neither I, nor the instructor, felt we could say it was better or worse. Naturally we did laps of handling circuit, and went on to the road in addition. Although hard to say what road speeds we were cornering at, the same handling characteristics prevailed.

Then we took out the GTS for the second half of the session. The car was used in a mixture of ‘Sport’ and ‘Sport plus’ settings. We repeated the exercise entirely. At normal brisk road speeds the cars felt very similar, although the steering in the GTS felt slightly heavier, and my feeling was that the GTS tracked in the corners with more road/tyre feel through the steering than the SD. (Maybe this is due to no AS.) Either way, the steering just felt nicer.

On the figure of eight course, the GTS felt unstressed, and rock solid at 32 mph through the turns. It would actually hold 34 mph through the turns without any under-steer. Only at 35 mph did the car begin push wide of the lines. However as the car drifted, it was neutral. There was no obvious under-steer. Nor was there any nervous feeling or ‘hopping’ through the steering wheel. The car was just ‘dialed in’ and smooth. You could also feel the changing level of grip through the steering wheel. Interestingly, as you added power to the drift, you could actually induce over-steer. This chassis set up was highly rewarding.

So the PTV+ GTS car generated more physical grip, and did so in a more ‘dialed in’ and less nervous way than the SD. Both the instructor and I agreed the difference was as strong enough to say it was ‘night and day’ better on track.

However, that is not all. We both agreed that at brisk driving speeds, that you would achieve on quiet roads, the PTV+ still gives a nicer feel though the steering “that just gets better the more you push.”
Obviously in slippery conditions PTV+ is an additional safety feature.

In conclusion: Whilst I do realise this review is not conclusive, both the instructor (who changed his opinion as the test went on) and I agreed that enthusiastic drivers would most likely benefit from PTV+.
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goron59
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Post by goron59 »

Nice write-up. Thanks.

Although it's a pity that it was a GTS vs something else as so much is different (as you noted) apart from the PTV+.

My explicit PTV+ test at PEC a year and half ago was less conclusive, but I went for PTV+ anyway in the end with a "what the hell" attitude, but having had a Turbo with Air on 20s without PTV+ and now a year with a Turbo with Air on 21s with PTV+, across a number of different road types and conditions, I can definitely agree that it gives you a more predictable and pointy nose, especially in slippery conditions with quick changes in directions (aka a roundabout in the wet whilst on the throttle :D ).

I wouldn't spec a Macan without it now.
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Retired
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Post by Retired »

Interesting review. Agree with Goron it's a pity you couldn't get a direct comparison between two identical cars, one with and one without PTV +.

The GTS suspension is engineered to produce a different and more sporting driving experience. I've just gone from a Turbo to a Turbo PP. The PP shares suspension with the GTS. Same wheels, both air suspension and the PP delivers a more sporty drive. Less understeer and you can feel the power being sent to the back wheels. Interestingly it also has a better ride quality (IMO, this is subjective).

The GTS suspension is different:

retuned PASM programming.
lower than standard
stiffer than standard
more torque sent to the rear wheels
recalibrated traction and stability management.

Too many variables I'm afraid.
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Post by jk88 »

Retired wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:53 amThe GTS suspension is engineered to produce a different and more sporting driving experience. I've just gone from a Turbo to a Turbo PP. The PP shares suspension with the GTS. Same wheels, both air suspension and the PP delivers a more sporty drive. Less understeer and you can feel the power being sent to the back wheels. Interestingly it also has a better ride quality (IMO, this is subjective).

Subjective maybe, however the improved ride was one of my first observations when I changed from my SD to a GTS earlier this year (both on 20s with air), so would be interesting to see any of the other forum member who have swapped to a GTS (or Turbo PP) think.
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Ferdie
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Post by Ferdie »

Interesting and well considered review - thanks - glad you noted the sack of cement on the roof was the same for both :lol:
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Post by Deleted User 1874 »

Retired wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:53 am Too many variables I'm afraid.
+1
For a valid comparison it really needs to be on the same suspension, wheels, tyres and engine, all of which were different here!

Out of interest on cars with PTV, can you switch it off? That would be the best way to evaluate. I'm guessing not, but you never know.
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Macandriver
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Post by Macandriver »

Interesting, but would PTV make a difference to the type of driver that doesn't do track driving and who gets enough of a kick out of sport mode to not need sport+?
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goron59
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Post by goron59 »

Macandriver wrote: Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:36 pm Interesting, but would PTV make a difference to the type of driver that doesn't do track driving and who gets enough of a kick out of sport mode to not need sport+?
It's not that binary, but generally yes, if you don't enjoy the extra feedback and responsiveness gained from the S+ throttle mapping, then you're equally unlikely to enjoy an actively variable locking diff.

On the other hand, when you have to avoid a cyclist on cold morning and get back into lane quickly before hitting the oncoming truck, you might benefit from PTV+ too. Well, the truck driver would certainly appreciate it :)
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Macandriver
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Post by Macandriver »

I do enjoy sport mode but find it's enough. PTV+ sounds good as you've described it though. :D
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