Seat Swap?

Interior and Exterior bodywork Issues and Fixes
Peteski
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Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:56 am

Re: Seat Swap?

Post by Peteski » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:56 pm

Guy wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:22 pm

I get the impression that most on this forum are in a position where they can throw money at a problem, rather than applying a little research and some relative basic engineering skills to seek the desired outcome.
I reckon in this case it would be cheaper to just buy the used spec that you wanted. I suppose it depends a little on how you value your own time in the job.


Peteski
Posts: 1825
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:56 am

Re: Seat Swap?

Post by Peteski » Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:04 pm

Guy wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:22 pm
It's well worth checking out the US Forum as they are much more ambitious with DIY that us Brits.
This is definitely true about the US DIY. In some ways I like their approach, but they also get themselves into a right mess too! There was one guy trying to convert his 5 seater Tesla X into a 7 seater, thinking it was just a matter of fitting the additional rear row of seats. So he bought the rear seats to fit, then discovered that it had a different wiring loom, different floor mounts and that his middle row bench didn't have the sliding adjustment or tilting mechanism to provide access or any legroom for the rear seats. Then he discovered the proper 7 seater has an additional rear HVAC unit too. It was a bad idea ultimately, he should have just bought a 7 seater in the first place.


porscot
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Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:54 pm

Re: Seat Swap?

Post by porscot » Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:36 pm

Guy, thanks for your considered reply. I had been forgetting about airbags although without researching it further my thought is all seats have the same airbags but that could be an incorrect assumption. Fortunately I do have a tool to reset airbag lights but not sure it is up to learning about new ones if not a direct replacement.

Peteski, maybe I should have chosen to introduce myself in the relevant section first in which case I would have said that I am not new to Porsche although I doubt I would have gone as far as mentioning I understand the very exacting demands of Porsche warranties. Having retrofitted cruise control to my 996 C4S (removal of steering wheel, 3-way stalk, instrument cluster then adding required wiring, replacement 4-way stalk and refitting including coding), I am confident swapping seats is not obviously too complicated for me. In that case before I bought the 4-way stalk and started out I researched if it was possible and what was required. I am asking the questions now so I know where I stand which is what the person in your Tesla story would have been better served doing before they started.

Regards


Col Lamb
Posts: 6911
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:38 pm
Location: Lancashire

Re: Seat Swap?

Post by Col Lamb » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:38 pm

I would not necessarily assume that the main wiring harness is the same, from an engineering perspective one only needs to fit a harness with the minimal of connections.

Unused wiring and connectors are a waste of materials and manufacturing costs and any Production Engineer worth his pay packet will minimise said production costs.
Col
Macan Turbo
Air, 20” wheels, ACC, Pano, SurCam, 14w, LEDs, PS+, Int Light Pack, Heated seats and Steering, spare wheel
SC, Privacy glass, PDK gear, SD mirrors, Met Black, partial garnet.

Prior Macan SD similar spec to Turbo


porscot
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Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:54 pm

Re: Seat Swap?

Post by porscot » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:17 pm

Col Lamb, I agree with your assessment from an engineering perspective however I have a couple of stories that suggest the engineers get overruled by the accountants.

A few years ago I heard a story about Mercedes. They had reviewed why it took so much longer to build engines than it took to take them apart. The engineers had done their job in working out what size of bolts were required and therefore had many different sizes at different places. The problem was when the engines were assembled it was taking longer to do as the engine builder had to select the right number of the right size and insert in the correct place. They therefore worked out if they used a common larger bolt they could assemble the engine quicker so therefore it was cheaper to redesign to use in many cases the larger than necessary bolts.

Similarly many years ago I had a Vauxhall Astra. After bending the manually operated aerial I looked into what would need done to replace it with an automatic extending / retracting version. On removing the rear light I could see an unused wiring harness so although mine was the cheap model that only got the manual aerial as standard, it must have been cheaper to get a common wiring harness but not fit the accessory.

Ultimately I imagine whether Porsche have redundant connectors or wiring will come down to cost.

Regards


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Guy
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Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:06 am
Location: Shropshire

Re: Seat Swap?

Post by Guy » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:23 am

Porscot,

A quick thought - did you get a copy of the Macan service manual from the US site? If not, you can download it from the link in the first post of this thread: https://www.macanforum.com/forum/engine ... anual.html

Have a look at page 2230 onwards.

Hope it helps!


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andreas
Posts: 276
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Location: Essex

Re: Seat Swap?

Post by andreas » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:04 pm

porscot wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:17 pm

Similarly many years ago I had a Vauxhall Astra. After bending the manually operated aerial I looked into what would need done to replace it with an automatic extending / retracting version. On removing the rear light I could see an unused wiring harness so although mine was the cheap model that only got the manual aerial as standard, it must have been cheaper to get a common wiring harness but not fit the accessory.

Ultimately I imagine whether Porsche have redundant connectors or wiring will come down to cost.
I bought a new Merc SLK for my wife in 2000, and collected it from the factory. The collection process included a factory tour, which was fascinating. One thing which struck me was that wiring looms were being made up, alongside the line, to cater for whichever options had been specified on each car. That was a surprise!
Macan S collected 4 Dec 2017 - Jet Black, 20" SportDesign wheels, Agate/Pebble leather, 18-way seats, comfort memory, seat heating, Light Comfort pack, Pano roof, Bi-Xenons with PDLS, Surround View, PASM, Power Steering Plus, spare wheel, towbar.


porscot
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:54 pm

Re: Seat Swap?

Post by porscot » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:50 pm

Guy, thanks for the useful link.

Looking at it on page 2238 it states "The number of electric plug connections can vary, depending on equipment."

I also looked on the parts diagrams (available from Porsche UK website for all models) at part 95B 612 901 00 which is the wiring harness for passenger compartment. When I first looked at it I thought as there was only one part number it must be the same harness per car. Contrast that with other parts that list multiple versions depending on model year or options. In this case it has one additional line which I think is telling and backs up what andreas observed for Mercedes. It states "Vehicle Ident. No. Indicate" which I interpret means the harness is vehicle specific.

Putting the service manual and parts diagrams together it does suggest that upgrading seats is unlikely to work in many cases. It may work in some cases but from the information available looks like making any complete assessment of what would work and what would not work is not possible.

This conclusion may help explain why earlier in the thread it was thought the Macan Turbo seats on ebay were such good value because in practice there may be few buyers who could make use of them if upgrading seats is limited by the wiring installed from new.

Regards


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