New Taycan

[Triple7]

Sorry guys, I just don’t get the whole EV thing.....

I am sold on EV’s for urban areas, but why would you buy one for commuting???

These are not ‘green’ vehicles, just zero emmission at the tailpipe. The emissions come from the polluting battery factory in china! Maybe you get lucky and buy your electricity from a wind farm, but why is that a win when you then have to expend huge amounts of that ‘produced’ energy, lugging tonnes of batteries for mile upon mile.

Sports car makers have spent millions shaving weight from their products and now Porsche stick a tonne of batteries in a ‘Sports car’. Eh?

Low speed, urban environments, great, but long distance???

Do drivers of these cars buy them because they think they are green. I tweeted Ian Callam back at the launch of the I-Pace as he called it a ‘green’ vehicle. It’s not!

Hydrogen fuel cell is surely the green choice?

Faux facts grand central station ^

While EVs are not zero emission over their lifecycle, they are still significantly less polluting overall than ICE cars, anything from 25-85% less depending on region and the UK is somewhere in the upper half of that range. Source link here:-

https://www.transportenvironment.org/pr ... lectricity

Battery weight is a genuine issue for EVs, but it's getting less and less of an issue as the battery tech improves and manufacturers make more of an effort to reduce weight in the rest of the chassis. Contrary to your idea that Sports car makers spend millions shaving weight, the reality is quite different and you only have to look down a typical options list to see why. Porsche are not stupid and the Taycan will not be much heavier (if at all) than a Panamera. It would be more of a challenge to get down to 911 weight, which is one of the reasons Porsche decided to start with a larger car for their first EV (that was stated directly by their chief designer in a recent interview).

For me the lower pollution is secondary to the other benefits of an EV which you will no doubt be totally oblivious of. But at least you won't be in front of me on the waiting list for a Taycan.

Rather than acting like an a-hole, why don’t you educate me. As my post says, I don’t get it as yet. Maybe when batteries are as light as an aluminium flat six I’ll be more sympathetic. As for the article on EV green credentials it compares diesel, where’s the comarison with petrol? What are it’s other benefits you indicate, but don’t describe?

Yes, you can have the Taycon before me. Having driven my first EV, I’ll enjoy a 911 far more......

[Deleted User 1874]

Sorry guys, I just don’t get the whole EV thing.....

I am sold on EV’s for urban areas, but why would you buy one for commuting???

These are not ‘green’ vehicles, just zero emmission at the tailpipe. The emissions come from the polluting battery factory in china! Maybe you get lucky and buy your electricity from a wind farm, but why is that a win when you then have to expend huge amounts of that ‘produced’ energy, lugging tonnes of batteries for mile upon mile.

Sports car makers have spent millions shaving weight from their products and now Porsche stick a tonne of batteries in a ‘Sports car’. Eh?

Low speed, urban environments, great, but long distance???

Do drivers of these cars buy them because they think they are green. I tweeted Ian Callam back at the launch of the I-Pace as he called it a ‘green’ vehicle. It’s not!

Hydrogen fuel cell is surely the green choice?

Faux facts grand central station ^

While EVs are not zero emission over their lifecycle, they are still significantly less polluting overall than ICE cars, anything from 25-85% less depending on region and the UK is somewhere in the upper half of that range. Source link here:-

https://www.transportenvironment.org/pr ... lectricity

Battery weight is a genuine issue for EVs, but it's getting less and less of an issue as the battery tech improves and manufacturers make more of an effort to reduce weight in the rest of the chassis. Contrary to your idea that Sports car makers spend millions shaving weight, the reality is quite different and you only have to look down a typical options list to see why. Porsche are not stupid and the Taycan will not be much heavier (if at all) than a Panamera. It would be more of a challenge to get down to 911 weight, which is one of the reasons Porsche decided to start with a larger car for their first EV (that was stated directly by their chief designer in a recent interview).

For me the lower pollution is secondary to the other benefits of an EV which you will no doubt be totally oblivious of. But at least you won't be in front of me on the waiting list for a Taycan.

Rather than acting like an a-hole, why don’t you educate me. As my post says, I don’t get it as yet. Maybe when batteries are as light as an aluminium flat six I’ll be more sympathetic. As for the article on EV green credentials it compares diesel, where’s the comarison with petrol? What are it’s other benefits you indicate, but don’t describe?

Yes, you can have the Taycon before me. Having driven my first EV, I’ll enjoy a 911 far more......

It's a very similar comparison with petrol. Other non-eco benefits of EV which I'm sure you will dispute are:-

Instant power/torque and with smoother delivery
Higher resolution traction/stability control
No warm-up issues
Ability to heat/cool cabin remotely and silently while locked
No more queueing with plebs at the petrol station
Less noise/vibration
No gearbox or clutch
More optimal weight distribution and lower CofG
Far cheaper running costs
Easier servicing

The main downside is extra weight - which you are IMO over-exaggerating, but it is a valid point.

BTW you didn't come across as someone looking to be educated. It came across more like an assertion.
If you really want to educate yourself, then you should give this link a good read (MIT study of different vehicle type emissions)

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/acs.est.6b00177

The above report was subject to some serious media manipulation to turn the conclusion on its head, which eventually led to this letter of complaint from the authors

https://www.ft.com/content/d14b6c8a-c61 ... 2b2cb39656

[TheTraveller]

Obviously EV's is a very emotive subject. But I must try and find a way to get that fox, that seems to have got in the hen house, and created some havoc. lol.

[Deleted User 1874]

Obviously EV's is a very emotive subject. But I must try and find a way to get that fox, that seems to have got in the hen house, and created some havoc. lol.

Fear of change. It's not like people don't already use electricity for pretty much everything else other than powering their car. I don't see what the big deal is myself. It was almost inevitable that it would happen eventually and now it's here. It's just another drivetrain option and a really good one too! Look how many EV hypercars are now under development and they are going to be mind-blowingly quick beasts!

[GMAN75]

Obviously EV's is a very emotive subject. But I must try and find a way to get that fox, that seems to have got in the hen house, and created some havoc. lol.

Fear of change. It's not like people don't already use electricity for pretty much everything else other than powering their car. I don't see what the big deal is myself. It was almost inevitable that it would happen eventually and now it's here. It's just another drivetrain option and a really good one too! Look how many EV hypercars are now under development and they are going to be mind-blowingly quick beasts!

It isn't fear of change. It's change into a sub optimal option for people who feel that their car is something more than a tool to get from A to B. If you want change to happen, then EVERYONE must have the same access to the tech and its benefits and the same desire to swap. Finally, no one appreciates being ram fed with the perceived benefits of these vehicles from authoritarian figures. That above there is 95% of the cause of the angst.

[Deleted User 1874]

Obviously EV's is a very emotive subject. But I must try and find a way to get that fox, that seems to have got in the hen house, and created some havoc. lol.

Fear of change. It's not like people don't already use electricity for pretty much everything else other than powering their car. I don't see what the big deal is myself. It was almost inevitable that it would happen eventually and now it's here. It's just another drivetrain option and a really good one too! Look how many EV hypercars are now under development and they are going to be mind-blowingly quick beasts!

It isn't fear of change. It's change into a sub optimal option for people who feel that their car is something more than a tool to get from A to B. If you want change to happen, then EVERYONE must have the same access to the tech and its benefits and the same desire to swap. Finally, no one appreciates being ram fed with the perceived benefits of these vehicles from authoritarian figures. That above there is 95% of the cause of the angst.

Since when did EVERYONE agree on the same type of car to drive or have access to all the options available? Or anything else for that matter. You have a personal choice, nobody is forcing you to drive an EV and you should be happy that you have vastly more choice in your preferred option of personal transport. The Taycan is there for those who might be interested in something different and can take advantage of the benefits. Like every other car ever invented, it isn't going to be for everyone and obviously isn't for you. But that doesn't mean it's benefits are not real for others.

But I think a lot of the angst actually comes from the simple fact that current ICE vehicles clearly have environmental issues and anything that threatens their existence is no doubt going to be seen with utmost suspicion and hostility by many, especially the older generations. Sometimes we can't just do whatever we feel like if there are serious consequences for everyone else. That's why we can't smoke in public places anymore and why soon we won't be allowed to drive around cities in polluting vehicles.

Oh and this idea you seem to have that EV drivers only see their car as a tool for getting from A to B is a load of bollox too IMHO. Or maybe I just don't conform to your stereotype EV driver profile.

[GMAN75]

Fear of change. It's not like people don't already use electricity for pretty much everything else other than powering their car. I don't see what the big deal is myself. It was almost inevitable that it would happen eventually and now it's here. It's just another drivetrain option and a really good one too! Look how many EV hypercars are now under development and they are going to be mind-blowingly quick beasts!

It isn't fear of change. It's change into a sub optimal option for people who feel that their car is something more than a tool to get from A to B. If you want change to happen, then EVERYONE must have the same access to the tech and its benefits and the same desire to swap. Finally, no one appreciates being ram fed with the perceived benefits of these vehicles from authoritarian figures. That above there is 95% of the cause of the angst.

Since when did EVERYONE agree on the same type of car to drive or have access to all the options available? Or anything else for that matter. You have a personal choice, nobody is forcing you to drive an EV and you should be happy that you have vastly more choice in your preferred option of personal transport. The Taycan is there for those who might be interested in something different and can take advantage of the benefits. Like every other car ever invented, it isn't going to be for everyone and obviously isn't for you. But that doesn't mean it's benefits are not real for others.

But I think a lot of the angst actually comes from the simple fact that current ICE vehicles clearly have environmental issues and anything that threatens their existence is no doubt going to be seen with utmost suspicion and hostility by many, especially the older generations. Sometimes we can't just do whatever we feel like if there are serious consequences for everyone else. That's why we can't smoke in public places anymore and why soon we won't be allowed to drive around cities in polluting vehicles.

Oh and this idea you seem to have that EV drivers only see their car as a tool for getting from A to B is a load of bollox too IMHO. Or maybe I just don't conform to your stereotype EV driver profile.

Not too long ago the government of this land was extolling the virtues of diesel. Now it wishes to severely punish those who took it up on its offer of swapping into diesel cars.

Now we are all told EVs are the future. To me, it's nothing more than effective marketing and lobbying. You are right about one thing, they offer choice. HOWEVER, that choice is subject to so many constraints that actually, right now, this choice too many is actually a fad. Like I said, you go and knock yourself out being that guinea pig for us all. I however, will not start trusting in a future that seems to revolve around recharging batteries where the infrastructure involved for its broad scale takeup will only ever exist in well into the future.

[Deleted User 1874]

Having read this thread through again, there appear to be several distinct camps here (and this applies to every EV related thread I've ever seen on this forum):-

a) Those who are genuinely curious about new performance EVs like the Taycan, but have some reservations about making the switch to EV and need to ask relevant questions and find out more info. I was in this camp about 18 months ago.

b) Those who have decided that EVs are rubbish for whatever personal reason and feel the need to declare it on every EV related thread. Often banging on about their magnificent 6/8/10/12 cylinder diesel/petrol engine as if it's something new that no EV owner has ever previously experienced.

c) Those who actually have some relevant experience of owning an EV, which is basically me and a couple of others who appear to have given up contributing because of the hostility or simply got bored with the repetition of largely uninformed opinions. Perhaps unsurprisingly we also have considerable experience of owning ICE cars and Porsche in particular, which makes a direct personal comparison fairly straightforward.

I think that about covers it...

[Deleted User 1874]

Not too long ago the government of this land was extolling the virtues of diesel. Now it wishes to severely punish those who took it up on its offer of swapping into diesel cars.

Now we are all told EVs are the future. To me, it's nothing more than effective marketing and lobbying. You are right about one thing, they offer choice. HOWEVER, that choice is subject to so many constraints that actually, right now, this choice too many is actually a fad. Like I said, you go and knock yourself out being that guinea pig for us all. I however, will not start trusting in a future that seems to revolve around recharging batteries where the infrastructure involved for its broad scale takeup will only ever exist in well into the future.

Yeah right and I suppose ICE cars are not subject to large scale marketing and lobbying at all?

Personally I don't care about the politics, only the vehicles and how they actually work for me. I suspect you are of the same mind in that respect.

[GMAN75]

Not too long ago the government of this land was extolling the virtues of diesel. Now it wishes to severely punish those who took it up on its offer of swapping into diesel cars.

Now we are all told EVs are the future. To me, it's nothing more than effective marketing and lobbying. You are right about one thing, they offer choice. HOWEVER, that choice is subject to so many constraints that actually, right now, this choice too many is actually a fad. Like I said, you go and knock yourself out being that guinea pig for us all. I however, will not start trusting in a future that seems to revolve around recharging batteries where the infrastructure involved for its broad scale takeup will only ever exist in well into the future.

Yeah right and I suppose ICE cars are not subject to large scale marketing and lobbying at all?

Personally I don't care about the politics, only the vehicles and how they actually work for me. I suspect you are of the same mind in that respect.

Yes agree. In fact, like I said, if my local Shell was an EV recharge station, and all similar outlets were near same, AND I had the capability of recharging in a suitable timeframe, I would consider it. Mind you, so would a lot of others. BUT, I dare say the grid infrastructure is not there to even allow that. So, for me, there is a long way to go.