Macan BEV v Facelift

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Pivot
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Re: Macan BEV v Facelift

Post by Pivot » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:02 am

Peteski wrote:
MikeM wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:04 pm
Peteski wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:32 am
Yet they seem to think people will be wanting to buy this:-



I just don't get Toyota and certainly not their vision of the future.
Maybe you don't but you cannot dismiss the facts:
>Selling over ten million cars a year for five years in a row
>The most most highly valued car company in the world
>Massive investments in Battery and Fuel Cell solutions
>Objective to have half their annual sales through EV by 2030

Do though agree that their design style is yet to hit the mark for Western European tastes, however their tech and build quality is excellent.
Of course Toyota sell a lot of mundane boxes to the masses, but they've only managed to sell literally a few thousand of these Mirai things globally since 2014, so it hasn't really taken off in the same way as alternative EVs. If Toyota can't crack this market then who else can? People often talk about "Tesla killers" but the term "Mirai killer" is not quite so popular.
One has to respect a company that is a shifting 10’000’000 cars a year!

On Tesla killers... Musk effectively open-sourced Tesla tech to stimulate the EV market. Imitators should be grateful, rather than resentful.
Macan S gen II, 435i Coupe, RnineT


Peteski
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Re: Macan BEV v Facelift

Post by Peteski » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:38 am

Pivot wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:02 am
Peteski wrote:
MikeM wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:04 pm

Maybe you don't but you cannot dismiss the facts:
>Selling over ten million cars a year for five years in a row
>The most most highly valued car company in the world
>Massive investments in Battery and Fuel Cell solutions
>Objective to have half their annual sales through EV by 2030

Do though agree that their design style is yet to hit the mark for Western European tastes, however their tech and build quality is excellent.
Of course Toyota sell a lot of mundane boxes to the masses, but they've only managed to sell literally a few thousand of these Mirai things globally since 2014, so it hasn't really taken off in the same way as alternative EVs. If Toyota can't crack this market then who else can? People often talk about "Tesla killers" but the term "Mirai killer" is not quite so popular.
One has to respect a company that is a shifting 10’000’000 cars a year!

On Tesla killers... Musk effectively open-sourced Tesla tech to stimulate the EV market. Imitators should be grateful, rather than resentful.
Toyota have no product I would consider buying today, regardless of their sales volume. But I can understand their reluctance to change. They obviously see potential in hydrogen, but you can't say it's been a roaring success story for them and they've been in there for quite some years now.

The term "Tesla Killer" appears to be something the press made up and seems to go hand in hand with any new EV hype. I'm sure the EV Macan will be yet another Tesla Killer.


pmg
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Re: Macan BEV v Facelift

Post by pmg » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:34 am

Peteski wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:38 am
Pivot wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:02 am
Peteski wrote:
Of course Toyota sell a lot of mundane boxes to the masses, but they've only managed to sell literally a few thousand of these Mirai things globally since 2014, so it hasn't really taken off in the same way as alternative EVs. If Toyota can't crack this market then who else can? People often talk about "Tesla killers" but the term "Mirai killer" is not quite so popular.
One has to respect a company that is a shifting 10’000’000 cars a year!

On Tesla killers... Musk effectively open-sourced Tesla tech to stimulate the EV market. Imitators should be grateful, rather than resentful.
Toyota have no product I would consider buying today, regardless of their sales volume. But I can understand their reluctance to change. They obviously see potential in hydrogen, but you can't say it's been a roaring success story for them and they've been in there for quite some years now.
One has to respect companies planning the long game. They have also argued their hybrids are preferable to plug in hybrids due to not needing plug in charging. Hydrogen has been held back as an alternative to ICE in many markets because the support infrastructure is not yet present.

Toyota seems to have an issue with EV battery recharging times. Even with fast charges some EV's eg Nissan Leaf have issues with consecutive fast charges. Quick refilling hydrogen overcomes this issue and perhaps Toyota with a widely spread dealer network needs to insist each of their Dealers provides Hydrogen refuelling as a way of establishing the necessary support network. Perhaps then when to sell pure ICE's and non plug-in hybrids become illegal, their hydrogen cars would pick up more of the market. Ultimately how battery technology develops will decide if the gap in the market for Hydrogen Toyota envisages will develop


Peteski
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Re: Macan BEV v Facelift

Post by Peteski » Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:00 pm

pmg wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:34 am
They have also argued their hybrids are preferable to plug in hybrids due to not needing plug in charging.
...and what a weak argument that is considering they sell plug-ins alongside non-plug-ins anyway. If Toyota were that serious about hydrogen, they would have pushed it a lot further by this point. They certainly have the cash to do so, but not the will or incentive.


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Pivot
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Re: Macan BEV v Facelift

Post by Pivot » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:00 pm

This is the problem with the Auto industry... boom and bust! When the times are good and cars sell like hot cakes, everybody is printing money, but when the market turns, excess capacity and bloated supply chain cannot downsize fast enough, resulting in major job losses and moth-balling. We are in the phase of global downsizing right now.

However, one day market is going to turn sharp towards the EV and many old-fashioned firms will be in serious trouble. They all know it, but the timing is key! They all are tinkering with EV, but few have the guts to scale down ICE to create capacity for EV and very few are bold or insane enough to build more capacity in already oversupplied auto market.

Some, like Tesla, are “lying the tracks” for the whole industry, others follow or hedge their bets. Eventually, gubernators will force our hand to buy more EVs, but in the meantime while we can still enjoy “Petrol Therapy” it would be silly not to!
Macan S gen II, 435i Coupe, RnineT


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Pivot
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Macan BEV v Facelift

Post by Pivot » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:42 pm

Peteski wrote:Toyota have no product I would consider buying today, regardless of their sales volume. But I can understand their reluctance to change.
Something to consider...
Image
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johnd
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Re: Macan BEV v Facelift

Post by johnd » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:30 pm

Pivot wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:00 pm
Eventually, gubernators will force our hand to buy more EVs, but in the meantime while we can still enjoy “Petrol Therapy” it would be silly not to!
Of course there is EV therapy too (with a suitably powerful EV - I'm not thinking eg Leaf here, more Model S/X, I-Pace, and Taycan I'm sure). It's obviously not the same multi-sense experience but can probably give the semicircular canals more of a workout than many ICE cars that non-super-rich punters are likely to own.
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MikeM
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Re: Macan BEV v Facelift

Post by MikeM » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:40 pm

Pivot wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:42 pm
Peteski wrote:Toyota have no product I would consider buying today, regardless of their sales volume. But I can understand their reluctance to change.
Something to consider...
Image
😂😂😂 Even this guy !

IMG_0449.JPG

2008. Boxster S Sport: basalt black, black interior (sold)
2012. 991 S: aqua blue, platinum interior (sold)
2016. Macan Turbo: volcano grey, agate and pebble interior (current) http://www.porsche-code.com/PHKPBML4


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Pivot
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Re: Macan BEV v Facelift

Post by Pivot » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:57 pm

I am not a fan of Toyota, but they are doing most things right and it shows:
I am somewhat surprised that Audi ranks higher then Porsche
Macan S gen II, 435i Coupe, RnineT


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Paul
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Re: Macan BEV v Facelift

Post by Paul » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:16 pm

Who was it who said “statistics, statistics and damned lies....”?
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